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no_hypocrisy

(48,945 posts)
Fri Jun 17, 2022, 06:39 PM Jun 2022

Recovered Alcoholics

Hi. I'm an attorney representing a father who is a recovered alcoholic. Dry and sober.

His estranged wife filed for "emergency custody" via an Order to Show Cause and accused him of Domestic Violence and alcoholism.

She's an active alcoholic herself.

My question: My law partner and I are arguing whether we can overcome the emergency custody claim of alcoholism. She says that "once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic" and that we will fail in court. And that's despite the fact my client has completed one month of institutional rehabilitation and has a sponsor. I say she's wrong and that his recovery will actually help him with getting custody. Do you think she's right, that a court will ignore a party who USED TO BE an alcoholic and use that as justification to take away his children?

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Recovered Alcoholics (Original Post) no_hypocrisy Jun 2022 OP
I agree with you. He has every right to seek custody or changes in the arrangement once sober Lettuce Be Jun 2022 #1
I would say "alcoholic in recovery" rather than recovered alcoholic Skittles Jun 2022 #2
I agree ☝️ Bristlecone Jun 2022 #4
I would guess duration of sobriety would be important Bristlecone Jun 2022 #3
THIS 👆🏼👆🏼👆🏼👆🏼👆🏼. Plus .... live love laugh Jun 2022 #9
Research this disease. TygrBright Jun 2022 #5
21 years on board of a halfway house. gibraltar72 Jun 2022 #6
How about this as an enticement? PJMcK Jun 2022 #7
There is no such thing as recovered, always recovering questionseverything Jun 2022 #8
Thank you for your information and insight. no_hypocrisy Jun 2022 #10
Well, those of us in AA say that we're "in recovery" Rhiannon12866 Jun 2022 #11
Thank you. no_hypocrisy Jun 2022 #12
Just a few thoughts and suggestions.... KY_EnviroGuy Jun 2022 #13
Just to emphasize other's points cally Jul 2022 #14
Thank you, esp. for the last part. no_hypocrisy Jul 2022 #15

Lettuce Be

(2,339 posts)
1. I agree with you. He has every right to seek custody or changes in the arrangement once sober
Fri Jun 17, 2022, 06:47 PM
Jun 2022

I cannot fathom any justice saying "once and done" especially considering alcoholism is considered a disease, not a choice.

The fact the estranged wife is also an alcoholic pretty much is icing on this cake. How is she considered more stable than he? Just my two cents

Skittles

(159,642 posts)
2. I would say "alcoholic in recovery" rather than recovered alcoholic
Fri Jun 17, 2022, 06:56 PM
Jun 2022

I do think alcoholism stays with you but behavior can change. Anyone taking active steps to deal with an addiction should be seen in a positive light.

Bristlecone

(10,494 posts)
3. I would guess duration of sobriety would be important
Fri Jun 17, 2022, 06:57 PM
Jun 2022

But rehab and actively participating in a program like AA has helped plenty of men and women I know land on the positive side of family matters, Job matters, and to your post, legal matters.

If your client is sober the 28 days in rehab, plus a couple more weeks or months, it might not carry the same weights as a year or more of sobriety. But the actions he is taking almost invariably help in my experience with others in similar situations.

Good luck w it.

live love laugh

(14,449 posts)
9. THIS 👆🏼👆🏼👆🏼👆🏼👆🏼. Plus ....
Fri Jun 17, 2022, 07:35 PM
Jun 2022

Making significant changes like (taking on custody or engaging in a battle) during early sobriety is a threat to continuing recovery.

All most recovering people can do is take care of themselves.

TygrBright

(20,987 posts)
5. Research this disease.
Fri Jun 17, 2022, 06:58 PM
Jun 2022

First, it's a condition that does not go away. Once you develop the particular response to ethanol that results in loss of control, continued use despite adverse consequences, and the other symptoms of what is now called "Alcohol Use Disorder" (AUD), you are vulnerable to those symptoms any time you ingest alcohol for the rest of your life.

(Yes, some people "return to controlled drinking" after months or years of sobriety. This rarely ends well and most experienced professionals, social workers, etc. are well aware that successful cases are extremely exceptional.)

So, if your client has an Alcohol Use Disorder, and you are making your case based on your client's awareness of his condition, getting treatment, and maintaining some period of sobriety, you (and your client) should demonstrate one of the key elements of successful long-term recovery: knowledge of the disease. Awareness that this condition is most likely lifelong, and a commitment to maintaining lifelong sobriety to keep the symptoms at bay.

Completing one month's rehab will likely be seen as a positive factor by a knowledgeable court. But one months' sobriety is still a relatively short time and those who know this disease are aware that the first year or two can be extremely challenging, in establishing long-term recovery.

This CAN be done - and that's an important thing to remind everyone concerned. People DO achieve stable recovery and maintain it, even lifelong. It may take multiple attempts but your client is doing the right things to succeed - getting treatment, getting a sponsor.

If your client is relatively recently out of rehab, he may want to consider doing a "90 days/90 meetings" commitment to help him get through those first really challenging months. And it will impress a knowledgeable judge (family court judges are sometimes quite knowledgeable about addictive diseases, treatment, and recovery maintenance.)

Good luck to your client, and you!

encouragingly,
Bright

gibraltar72

(7,629 posts)
6. 21 years on board of a halfway house.
Fri Jun 17, 2022, 07:02 PM
Jun 2022

What you have is a dry drunk. 1 month is good but my experience tells me that won't satisfy court. You will need witnesses that know she is an alcoholic and her bad behaviors or judgement.

PJMcK

(22,942 posts)
7. How about this as an enticement?
Fri Jun 17, 2022, 07:03 PM
Jun 2022

Present your client’s actions towards moving his life forward in a positive direction. Let the Court know that he completed a rehab program and has followed up in a program with a sponsor. A personal statement could be valuable, too.

Here’s the kicker: Let your client accept random testing to assure his compliance.

His ex-wife won’t have any standing as long as your guy stays on the straight and narrow.

Good luck!

Rhiannon12866

(222,887 posts)
11. Well, those of us in AA say that we're "in recovery"
Sun Jun 19, 2022, 04:26 AM
Jun 2022

We're still alcoholics, and I know several who have over 40 years sober. We don't say we're "recovered," which means we can't drink again. But it does sound like your client has made a good start if he's committed to his sobriety and has a sponsor who is supporting his recovery and guiding his progress. My sponsor, who I met at my second AA meeting, both supported me, but also told me what to do, and I listened and followed her example. I don't know much about the legal questions, but it sounds like your client made a good start if he's committed to sticking with it. I had 13 years of sobriety in April and still try to work a solid program on a daily basis. Wishing your client good luck, it really is worth it, especially if he's committed to his sobriety and his children.

no_hypocrisy

(48,945 posts)
12. Thank you.
Sun Jun 19, 2022, 05:33 AM
Jun 2022

I just don't want the judicial system to punish him despite his rehabilitation. He shouldn't lose his children because he was an active alcoholic.

What galls me is that his wife is an alcoholic and if he accuses her, his stance will be viewed as biased.

KY_EnviroGuy

(14,597 posts)
13. Just a few thoughts and suggestions....
Sun Jun 19, 2022, 07:24 AM
Jun 2022

First, you or your client or no one else should declare the woman an alcoholic. That's her call alone because it's a complex physical, emotional and mental disease and its extent and depth of addiction is only known to the person it affects. One can say however with evidence, that she may have a problem with alcohol. It would be best in court to avoid the word alcoholic entirely if possible because of its misuse.

The woman's statement is very poorly informed and tends to bias most people who don't understand alcoholism. I'm sober almost 32 years now but still identify to understanding friends as an alcoholic. The term "recovering alcoholic" is misleading as well since it sounds like someone still taking chemo for cancer. Recovery is simply a life-long dedication to never drinking again, and a dedication to being a much better person living a low-stress life.

If your client only has a brief time sober, he's in fragile territory. Old-timers in AA typically suggest waiting a full year sober before making any major changes in ones life (marriage, career change, distant move, etc.). Many in recovery have an extremely difficult time for years overcoming the urge to pull into a liquor store when under high stress, so we're told to take it easy for quite a while as we get our health and mental/emotional stability back.

From a courts standpoint, they would love it if a defendant could say with absolute certainty that they will never drink again, but that's not possible. It's good that your client has a sponsor and I hope he's making lots of meetings and is making lots of new sober friends. His long-term sobriety is entirely up to him. I sponsored lots of men during my active years and watched a few of them die or go to prison after relapse, yet a few became some of my very best friends for life. However, I also had to divorce lots of the old drinking-days acquaintances!

If your client is like I was in 1990, he must make his sobriety job number 1 in his life for a very long time. If we stay sober, it's amazing how society is helpful and forgiving and things usually turn out OK.

I wish him the very best of luck and hope he can untangle himself from this mess soon. Thank you for trying to help and for sharing this story!


KY.........

cally

(21,712 posts)
14. Just to emphasize other's points
Mon Jul 11, 2022, 05:50 PM
Jul 2022

None of us are “recovered” alcoholics but we maintain our sobriety by talking to a sponsor, attending meetings, and working the program. It takes commitment, acknowledgement that it is a lifelong battle, and changes in your behavior.

I would trust an alcoholic in recovery, but sounds like your client is in very early sobriety and I’ve seen many go back to drinking. I would argue that your client is making changes and dedicated to his new life while the wife is not changing.

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