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quaint

(3,550 posts)
Wed May 20, 2020, 09:14 AM May 2020

Need water heater advice

Hello all, I would greatly appreciate all advice and information.

I'm in SoCal and my 12yo 50 gal water heater "pilot" has gone out 2-3 times a year. It went again in March and I found the roof gas vent cap missing with rain pouring into the tank from the 4 inch rooftop vent pipe. So far, no call backs when I've left messages wanting a new 40 gal and vent cap. I don't know if that's because of CV closures or because someone has to go on the roof.

I live alone and currently heat water in pots for showering, etc. After two months, it's gotten old.
Can a 40 gal electric easily replace my old 50 gal gas? Would that be a bad decision?

Thanks.

36 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Need water heater advice (Original Post) quaint May 2020 OP
I would look at a tankless heater. Can be gas or 220v. I got one years ago and love it. CurtEastPoint May 2020 #1
Can you take long showers? quaint May 2020 #2
Tankless heaters mean not running out of hot water. Not sure GreenPartyVoter May 2020 #4
Great information. quaint May 2020 #7
Yep, Rinnai here. Works like a champ and the gas bill for hot water, clothes drying and cooking CurtEastPoint May 2020 #9
Mine is mounted outside. It takes maybe a minute to get fully hot. CurtEastPoint May 2020 #5
Yes, it produces hot water as long as it's needed. Well, given constraints on how many... CurtEastPoint Jul 2020 #28
Another vote for tankless. we can do it Jul 2020 #27
You can replace it with an electric tank randr May 2020 #3
I was hoping the 220 in my laundry would make it reasonable. quaint May 2020 #6
The 220 in laundry is dedicated to your dryer randr May 2020 #12
I realized if I broke any part of me, it would end my freedom. quaint May 2020 #14
I can't offer any substantial advice on what to get, PoindexterOglethorpe May 2020 #8
I've clicked the not-an-emergency box quaint May 2020 #10
Okay, that makes sense now. PoindexterOglethorpe May 2020 #15
Advice from a plumber. Chainfire May 2020 #11
The rest of my story. quaint May 2020 #13
A licensed plumber ought to be qualified to check and repair the venting Kaleva May 2020 #16
Definitely need a permit here, gotta keep our city solvent. quaint May 2020 #17
Most cities do not require permits for routine repairs. Chainfire Feb 2021 #31
Four times heater restarted; boom; out goes the fire. quaint Feb 2021 #32
Your description of your problem suggests that you need a pro to look at your heater. Chainfire Feb 2021 #35
The most recent visit was from a plumber. quaint Feb 2021 #36
For the past couple of days, my hot water has a rusty tinge to it, but my cold water runs clear. Tarheel_Dem Feb 2021 #30
what city are you in? nt msongs May 2020 #18
The bellybutton of the Beast. quaint May 2020 #19
Tankless hot water heaters are a great option , but.. AZ8theist May 2020 #20
I wish I could install it myself. quaint May 2020 #21
Don't you have a cutoff to the main coming into the house? AZ8theist May 2020 #22
Well, duh. quaint May 2020 #23
I'm so sorry quant.. AZ8theist May 2020 #24
Thank you. quaint May 2020 #25
Need water heater advice Ovens1986 Jul 2020 #26
I also have a Bradford White Major Nikon Jul 2020 #29
This message was self-deleted by its author Chainfire Feb 2021 #33
I have never seen any big difference in brands and, when in business, advised my customers Chainfire Feb 2021 #34

quaint

(3,550 posts)
2. Can you take long showers?
Wed May 20, 2020, 09:20 AM
May 2020

I've read so much conflicting advice from experts, I really appreciate empirical information. Is your unit far from your bath? Thank you!

GreenPartyVoter

(73,038 posts)
4. Tankless heaters mean not running out of hot water. Not sure
Wed May 20, 2020, 09:33 AM
May 2020

what size my Rinnai s, but it's scaled for a family of 4, 2 baths, clothes washer and dishwasher. Never been without hot water due to heavy use. It's in my basement, so takes a bit for water to get upstairs, but no biggie.

CurtEastPoint

(19,182 posts)
9. Yep, Rinnai here. Works like a champ and the gas bill for hot water, clothes drying and cooking
Wed May 20, 2020, 10:21 AM
May 2020

is around $31/month for me.

CurtEastPoint

(19,182 posts)
5. Mine is mounted outside. It takes maybe a minute to get fully hot.
Wed May 20, 2020, 09:33 AM
May 2020

I have never run out of water. It's just me and long shower? I dunno...mine are maybe 5 min?

CurtEastPoint

(19,182 posts)
28. Yes, it produces hot water as long as it's needed. Well, given constraints on how many...
Mon Jul 13, 2020, 04:20 PM
Jul 2020

concurrent hot water uses there are: shower + dishwasher + washer, etc.
There are guidelines provided by mfrs.

randr

(12,480 posts)
3. You can replace it with an electric tank
Wed May 20, 2020, 09:23 AM
May 2020

You will need to install the required electrical supply, usually a 40amp wire on a new circuit. It probably will required a disconnect switch at location. Make sure you have couplings installed with shut off valves so that next time tank is replaced the cost will be much more reasonable. A qualified P & H will follow all codes. You still need to cap the vent at roof.
In all likelihood the moisture from rains caused some corrosion at burner. This usually makes the pilot sensor malfunction. A new cap and cleaning may be all you need. With a 12 year old tank I would compare replacements as the electrical work could be costly.

quaint

(3,550 posts)
6. I was hoping the 220 in my laundry would make it reasonable.
Wed May 20, 2020, 09:58 AM
May 2020

Of course, amps never crossed my mind. Do plumbers usually do roof caps? I've been leaving messages at "water heater installation and replacement" businesses.

I bought a cap, probably wrong one, and climbed on the roof. Then I got the heebie jeebies so this septuagenarian hundred-pounder stuck the cap in the pipe and climbed down. Don't want to go up again.

Didn't think electric would need venting. Obvious why this isn't one of my DIY projects.

Thank you.

randr

(12,480 posts)
12. The 220 in laundry is dedicated to your dryer
Wed May 20, 2020, 10:55 AM
May 2020

You would need a separate 220/40amp for the DHW and no venting required. Please do not get on your roof again.
Being a septuagenarian myself I have discovered that falling is no longer an option.

quaint

(3,550 posts)
14. I realized if I broke any part of me, it would end my freedom.
Wed May 20, 2020, 11:13 AM
May 2020

I've limited myself to six foot ladders from now on.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(26,727 posts)
8. I can't offer any substantial advice on what to get,
Wed May 20, 2020, 10:17 AM
May 2020

but I'm very disturbed that you're not getting calls back. Do any of the plumbers have websites?

And good luck to you.

About a year and a half ago I replaced a water heat that was a good 25 years old, so I'd been lucky it lasted so long. Fortunately, I was able to find an excellent local firm and was only without hot water for three days.

quaint

(3,550 posts)
10. I've clicked the not-an-emergency box
Wed May 20, 2020, 10:40 AM
May 2020

and completed what's-your-issue in two online forms, and left messages at two others. Since it went out two months ago, I couldn't claim emergency, yet I suspect that's why no call backs under CV restrictions. I'm going to try again next week, hoping to reach a live person as our state continues relaxing restrictions.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(26,727 posts)
15. Okay, that makes sense now.
Wed May 20, 2020, 11:35 AM
May 2020

Depending on how much work any given plumber or company can realistically take on now, I see the problem. Hope this doesn't escalate to an actual emergency and that you can get a plumber in reasonably soon.

 

Chainfire

(17,757 posts)
11. Advice from a plumber.
Wed May 20, 2020, 10:46 AM
May 2020

For what it is worth, I have a master plumber license in three states.

The most cost effective way of dealing with your issue is have that vent cap fixed. That will have to be done regardless of what other steps you take. I believe that the missing cap is allowing wind to blow out your pilot.

It takes no special skill to replace that cap, it simply twists on, so no plumber or gas mechanic is needed. Anyone who is not afraid to go up on your roof can fix the thing. If you don't have the old cap, you can buy one cheaply at Lowes or Home Depot.

Since you have to fix that issue, do that first. If you don't fix it, you are allowing rain and bugs into your home. You may also have a problem with a thermocouple, but I doubt it. Thermocouple replacement is one of the least expensive repairs to make.

To answer your question about sizing the water heater, even a 30 gallon gas tank-type heater would serve one person without a problem.

A tankless water heater will save money in energy use and would serve your needs, but it is going to be quite expensive to change out and it will be a long time in seeing any cost benefit. In fact, it may not last long enough to pay for the cost of installation. Tank type heaters are very simple, they last a long time, and they are easily repaired.

If you decide that you want to change to a smaller tank-type heater, do not be impressed by anything other than the energy rating of the unit. When you pay for a big name heater, you are paying for the name only. I have never been able to see a difference in quality in any tank type heater, except for the quality of their insulation and thus energy rating. It is not a big secret, your plumber makes more money if he sells you more stuff, many or most will try to sell you more than you need.

Bottom line is this: If money is no issue, swap to a gas type tankless heater. If money is an issue, fix your present unit, or replace it with a 30 gallon gas heater. I would fix it.

quaint

(3,550 posts)
13. The rest of my story.
Wed May 20, 2020, 11:06 AM
May 2020

I bought this stuck it in, heated for 20 minutes or so, loud bang, heater out, turned off heater, turned off gas, wallowed in self-pity.

Because of the bang, the integrity of the vent pipe through the filthiest fifty year old attic should maybe be checked. Will a regular plumber do the roof and the attic?

I have mostly my stimulus money plus a little so it seems I should have it repaired or go with a 30 gal. gas replacement if I can find someone. Any SoCal referrals?

Thank you bunches.

Kaleva

(38,172 posts)
16. A licensed plumber ought to be qualified to check and repair the venting
Wed May 20, 2020, 01:08 PM
May 2020

If you go electric or change to another gas water heater, you'll most likely need to get a permit.

quaint

(3,550 posts)
17. Definitely need a permit here, gotta keep our city solvent.
Wed May 20, 2020, 02:36 PM
May 2020

I will call people listed as plumbers next and forget the non-responding installers.

 

Chainfire

(17,757 posts)
31. Most cities do not require permits for routine repairs.
Sun Feb 28, 2021, 09:41 AM
Feb 2021

I have a strong suspicion that the noise you heard was not related to the new vent cap. By all means, call a licensed professional to check out your problem. If the city requires a permit, pay for the permit, if nothing else it will be worth the cost for peace of mind.

quaint

(3,550 posts)
32. Four times heater restarted; boom; out goes the fire.
Sun Feb 28, 2021, 09:54 AM
Feb 2021

Plumber came and wrote the vent cap properly installed (it's not, I was on the roof) and the old heater safe. Told me if I let inspectors in there's no telling what they'll find as he nodded at my 50 year old stove.

Told me if I flip that lever I can stop water from filling the tank. Having learned my lesson, I responded that was funny because before he passed my husband always turned off the water to the house when he drained the tank twice a year.

11 months, no running hot water because 1) a tiny old lady doesn't know anything, or 2) because I don't have $200,000 to rehab my house, I couldn't possibly have $2,000 for a water heater.

 

Chainfire

(17,757 posts)
35. Your description of your problem suggests that you need a pro to look at your heater.
Sun Feb 28, 2021, 04:09 PM
Feb 2021

The fix could be a small adjustment requiring no parts, but it sounds a bit more serious.

quaint

(3,550 posts)
36. The most recent visit was from a plumber.
Sun Feb 28, 2021, 05:13 PM
Feb 2021

Any referral is welcome. The unit went out when the 50 year old vent cap was knocked off by a golf ball.

Tarheel_Dem

(31,443 posts)
30. For the past couple of days, my hot water has a rusty tinge to it, but my cold water runs clear.
Sun Feb 28, 2021, 01:13 AM
Feb 2021

Is there any way to fix that, or does the unit need to be replaced? Bear in mind, that money is definitely "an issue". I've been filtering through DIY videos for the past couple of days, but it would be great to get some advice from a DU pro. I found a 5 y.o. tank on ebay, that says it's in excellent condition, but for some reason, I feel like I might be buying someone else's troubles.

AZ8theist

(6,491 posts)
20. Tankless hot water heaters are a great option , but..
Thu May 21, 2020, 09:54 AM
May 2020

They are also 5x the price of a conventional heater. Maybe a little less, but WAY WAY more expensive. They also require professional installation to be correct.
I chose to go the route of conventional gas, (and being quite handy) installed it myself.

My 2c..

quaint

(3,550 posts)
21. I wish I could install it myself.
Thu May 21, 2020, 11:16 AM
May 2020

Gas replacement is my plan, now. I haven't figured out how to turn the cold water off without standing on my washing machine. My ladder doesn't get close enough.

AZ8theist

(6,491 posts)
22. Don't you have a cutoff to the main coming into the house?
Fri May 22, 2020, 09:36 AM
May 2020

If you can turn that off, it will cut off your water supply, Any residual can be drained by opening up all the faucets. Then you can install the new heater.
If its' too much trouble for you, get estimates from licensed plumbers. Most will offer payment plans, but at least you'll have piece of mind it was done correctly. And you'll get a warranty.

Best of luck.

quaint

(3,550 posts)
23. Well, duh.
Fri May 22, 2020, 11:00 AM
May 2020

Thanks for pointing the obvious which should have been clear to me. I've been trying to get a professional and plan to work the phones again Tuesday. Between my county being a bit more open and the long holiday over, I hope to find someone willing to go in the attic and up on the roof, as well as the swap.

My lack of skills combined with being a small, old woman make this not a DIY project for me. I have funds.

AZ8theist

(6,491 posts)
24. I'm so sorry quant..
Sun May 24, 2020, 06:43 AM
May 2020

I thought you were something other than a small old woman. I guess I take too much for granted on these posts.
That being so, I URGE YOU to get several estimates from LICENCED plumbers in your area. I'm certain there are plenty that need the business. Don't stop until you have at least 3 good estimates with WARRANTYS for their work.
If you ever need advice in this area, please feel free to email me and I will do my best to help you. I HATE IT when people are taken advantage of......
Best Regards,
AZ

Ovens1986

(8 posts)
26. Need water heater advice
Thu Jul 2, 2020, 03:05 AM
Jul 2020

I have had my last two 50Gal Gas water heaters rust through and leak at about 3 year mark each.
They were both the same Bradford White model. The 1st was replaced under warranty.
Looking for a better brand to use.

Major Nikon

(36,900 posts)
29. I also have a Bradford White
Tue Jul 28, 2020, 08:50 AM
Jul 2020

In my experience even cheap water heaters last a long time under the right conditions.

If you are lucky enough to have fairly soft water that's relatively ion free, then your hot water heater will likely last a very long time without having to do anything to it. Some of us aren't that lucky. In this case you have a couple of defenses. The first and easiest is to follow your manufacturer's maintenance recommendations, which involve periodically draining some of your water heater's water. The other thing is anode inspection. All steel water heaters have a sacrificial anode which will degrade over time. The ions in the water attack the anode instead of your tank. If the anode calcifies or simply erodes, then this defense is gone and those ions will start attacking your tank eventually causing failure. If you are experiencing failure at the 3 year mark, you might want to check your anode every year or so and replace as necessary. All steel tank type water heaters have these anodes and regardless of which brand you have they will all fail if this anode becomes ineffective. If your anode is failing due to calcification, and I suspect that might be the case here, you might want to consider turning down your hot water temperature. Higher temps result in higher calcification.

See pages 22 and 23. https://s3.amazonaws.com/bradfordwhitecorp/wp-content/uploads/residential_gas_natural_atmospheric_vent_naeca_compliant_iomanual_51012.pdf

Response to Ovens1986 (Reply #26)

 

Chainfire

(17,757 posts)
34. I have never seen any big difference in brands and, when in business, advised my customers
Sun Feb 28, 2021, 04:05 PM
Feb 2021

to buy based on energy efficiency and price, not brand. There is not near as many water heater makers as their is water heater "brands." The same factory can make a dozen brands. Same heater, different case. I suspect that in my career, I installed 500 water heaters and usually if they are going to leak in the first three years, they will leak in the first three weeks. Three years is a very short lifespan for any water heater, it must have had a factory defect or either you have some very rough water. I have repaired water heaters that were 30 years old, I recently replaced my 22 year old gas water heater with an electric, and there was nothing wrong with it other than I did not want to deal with propane any longer, the truth is, I don't recall what brand ether heater was/is.....

A water heater company once sent my wife and I on a free, all expense paid, luxury vacation, to Acapulco for a week, and I didn't even push their "Brand." I did, however, very much enjoy their trip!

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