...of "family." But, so is "communication." I wish you well.

You should not have to give up your dining room for him. He can move in with your father-in-law or find his own place. Period.

I get so tired of tales of adult children who can't make it on their own, and of the parents who rescue them. I moved out on my own when I was 17 years old, rented an apartment, and never looked back.

My own sons have been independent and on their own for a very long time. I'm especially thinking of my younger son, who chose to continue supporting himself by delivering pizzas even after he'd graduated cum laude from the University of Tulsa. Sigh. Surely he could have done something else with his degree.

But, and here's the important point, he knew that neither I, nor his father (we were divorced by then) would support him. He'd graduated college, and so he was on his own. He supported himself delivering pizza, which I consider absolutely a good way to earn a living.

that's the right choice for everyone. A lot of teens move out because of problems with their parents -- but that situation shouldn't have to continue down into the next generation.

If I had a choice of apartments, like this father did, and my child was only 20, I'd have picked one with a spare bedroom, because you never know what might happen.

But I am astonished at how many parents continue to coddle adult children years after those kids should be on their own.

but they shouldn't be surprised if someday, when they're in their 80's or 90's, their son isn't interested in helping them out. Maybe they'll have a grandchild they can lean on instead.

He can get a job. Yeah, it might be a somewhat crap job, like overnight stocking at Target, or delivering pizza if he has a car, or making burgers at McDonald's, but he needs to be gainfully employed. Period. Making excuses doesn't help him grow up.

years, and he can have as little to do with them as he wants.

to give it a month with gramps, and ask gramps not to ride his ass too much ..
maybe it would give them both some time together to bond and help get over the loss of grandma, and share some positive experiences together ?

Again, just the month and see what develops … gramps would appreciate the company, and your son would have his privacy … and you’d have yours too


✌🏻

I won't suggest just hiring people to move his stuff there one day when he's out. But the thought had crossed my mind.
Good luck.

Maybe you could subtly shift the dynamics to give him even less privacy. He's old enough to be gently nudged into the reality if he really wants more privacy having his own room at his grandfather's place would be much better all around. I'm sure his grandad would let him make some changes so the place will be more his own. He doesn't have to live with constant reminders of his grandmother everywhere. As a grandmother I know you can't go around telling your kids or grandkids how to live their lives, but at the same time if he wants to make this work, he has to give a little, too. Right now you're accommodating his needs and wants but he seems to expect that of you without him realizing he's imposing on you.

Good luck to you.

go downhill quickly . . . or not. And who would be stuck dealing with all that? The 20 year old. This doesn't seem fair to me.

It's almost as if the parents deliberately chose a 1 bedroom place (they didn't have to) so they'd have an excuse for not ever helping the son out again. And now his circumstances give them an excuse to reduce their contacts with the father in law, too -- the grandson will take care of him.

He’s all in on his feelings but not yours, your wife or his grandfather. Jmo..

Since he has a much better option - his own room rent free - he needs to deal with his sadness and get out of your dining room. That sounds like an intolerable situation after more than a few days. You’re the ones who seem to be having to make all the sacrifices and that will get old really quick.

Since nobody wants to see him kicked to the curb while already in financial distress, a reasonable timeframe should be set for him to stay at your place whether it is one month, 3 months, or say the end of this year and be firm about it. Your son may change his mind with staying with the FIL if the other option is being homeless.

You might check and see if you have a senior center or somebody at the legislature that works on senior issues or maybe even an office on aging at the University nearest you or call your legislators and ask them if there’s an office that deals with senior issues and ask those folks if they know of any intergenerational Homesharing organizations. They are common all over the continent now. Now in Hawaii we have Homesharinghawaii.org. One best practice I know is it’s a good idea for people for the tenant to have their own TV and mini fridge in their room. This is because most conflicts arise around the fridge or the TV.

The home sharing group in Hawaii, home sharinghawaii.org, works with the local mediation center to draft the agreement. It’s really best for the relationships and families to to have a structured agreement and a way for people to work things out. There’s always going to be stuff it’s just how you handle the stuff.

If your son can start to make new memories in the place with his grandpa maybe it will be a very positive place for him. I respect if you feel sad there though I understand if that’s a deal killer but is living in your dining room really fair to you folks?

OK extracting my nose from your business, aloha and good luck to all. This may end up being something so wonderful for both of them. Best hopes for all, aloha.

Respectfully, your son doesn'tseem to recognize that setting up camp in your dining room might be a tad inconvenient. The offer from your FIL sounds like an excellent solution for everyone, and very generous. Your son would have his own room and be company for your FIL, even if it is only being another person in the house. Sit him down and tell him it's too good an offer for him to refuse, then help him pack.
Signed, Nana

Other people here think I’m an asshole who wants to turn my son into a caregiver so I can get my dining room back. But, trust me. If my FIL wanted or needed such care, he’d hire a professional nurse, or go to a specific assisted living place he’s talked about for years. He’s not rich. But he has enough money for that.

go take care of your grandfather-in-law and give me my damn dining room back

I'm 32 year old female living at home helping out my mom with her renovations in her home. But I do pay her a lot in rent while I help her with remodeling and also my own transitioning. But sometimes I wonder if she would feel this way about me?

And, if you were there during the entire pandemic, you provided some much-needed socialization.

I lost my apartment after a few roommates lost their job. So I ended up back home. Least I helped her pay off the mortgage so she owns the home now.

In our situation, we hate doing yardwork for the house but the youngsters absolutely love it, so that's another plus!

Yard work, dishes, half the bills and groceries. My momma is only 64 and is very healthy and fit for her age. She doesn't need assistance like some would. I think she just enjoys her daughter being around.

The smartphone usage is sometimes a problem, though.

The biggest difference is you're helping to share the load in both money and work. The other importance besides those two is probably privacy and I'm sure you both give each other that. I think she loves having you around.

then having him get sick and die, just like he lost his grandmother. That sounds like a pretty big responsibility for a 20 year old.

For you, it's a win-win, because you get your dining room back, and someone else to watch over your father in law.

What happens to the apartment when your father in law dies? Does your son have to move again?

Kids starting out do.

or living with parents who'd rather have a dining room than a son.

take over the apartment when he passes.
Saying that this is a choice between having a son and having a dining room is drivel.

I don't see how this is a great deal for the grandson, but it looks convenient for his parents and their nice dining room.

The move would be good for the kid and everyone else.

if, as they approach the end of their own lives, their adult children will still feel close to them.

My siblings and I did everything we could to help our mother in her last years, because we'd always felt loved by her. My father, who was more of the "suck it up buttercup" school, didn't inspire the same loyalty or love -- in any of his children.

So, good luck on that!

military recruiting office.

… wants a caretaker. He wants a roommate.

Not camped out in his parents dining room. He can live with his grandfather or share a space with roommates.

Lots of other people have done it too.

We did it, too, but we were 40 ish. Not 20, just starting our lives, We were closer to the age of this young man's PARENTS, who conveniently have only a 1 bedroom apartment, so they certainly can't ever have the grandfather in their own place down the road, if he needs help.

His family is providing him with the only option that works for them. He, as an adult, can choose which ever one he wants. Part of adulting is making difficult choices.

to go live with his 94 year old grandfather, they might be disappointed when they are in their final years and expect some help from their son.

He might tell them to ask their grandchildren instead.

of adulthood he’ll still be living in their dinning room so I guess there’s that.

It's not like he's made no attempt to try. Lots of young adults make a false start or two, at the beginning.

I think he's might be best off living with roommates his own age, rather than becoming a live-in nurse to his grandfather in his declining months or years -- or living with parents who clearly don't want him (or they would have gotten a 2 bedroom apartment instead -- or they could have moved a bit farther from beautiful Lake Michigan, and gotten an apartment with 2 bedrooms and a dining room.)

his own age. He doesn’t seem to think so as he is refusing that option. To say his parents don’t want him is incredibly unkind.

Instead, they got their 1 bedroom near Lake Michigan, because the nice apartment was more important to them than keeping a door open to their son -- or to the 94 year old, in case he ever needed more help.

available for their adult children? Are they ever allowed to have housing that cannot accommodate their offspring?

And it is completely up to their son how he will feel about helping out, if it comes to a time when THEY might need help.

But when they are 94, or even before then, they might wish that they did have an extra bedroom to accommodate a needed helper (any helper.)

because they didn’t select a two bedroom apartment.

to keep a door open to the idea of either their son or the grandfather living with them in the future, the parents would have chosen a different apartment -- one with a second bedroom.

I'm sure their current apartment is very nice -- near the lake, and with a great dining room. But they could have made a different choice, if keeping their door open to a family member was important.

And that's fine. Their choice. But they shouldn't be surprised if, some decade in the future, their son makes a similar choice.

no longer provide space for their adult children. To no longer “keep a door open.” What age does a child have to be before parents choose where to live without considering that a child may want to return to the nest?

is learning how to treat their parents by the way the parents have been treating them. Parents shouldn't take for granted that their adult child will be more supportive and helpful some day than they were to their adult children.

I believe that family ties work in both directions.

for them to come back to the meat. Got it.

you should have a second bedroom so you have space for a caretaker to live in, if necessary -- whether that caretaker is an employee or a relative.

First, part of the appeal of our place is that it’s a block from where my FIL lives. He’s fiercely independent and doesn’t want to live with any of his kids. He hasn’t money set aside for assisted living if he needs it. But we’re very close (geographically and otherwise) and see him all the time.

Also, the FIL’s place is paid for. And he can afford the HOA fees. If he changes his mind about living with family, my wife and I could move in with him and rent out our place.

We talked to our son before buying our place. He agreed that the price was great (motivated seller) and big enough for him to “flop” in if it came down to it. But he also said he’d never do that unless it was necessary.

He needed a place to stay. And he knew that meant staying in the dining room. I just wish he had an exit strategy and cut his mom a little slack.

here who didn't seem to be even trying to see this from the son's point of view.

My husband and I DID take care of a 94 year old, through her last year. I wouldn't wish that burden on any 20 year old who's still trying to get his own bearings.

And I do believe, based on my experience, that your son could be grieving his grandmother and fearful about what's ahead. But you obviously know him and I don't.

The best of luck on what lies ahead. Losing loved ones is hard on everyone -- even on 20 year olds who might not show all their feelings.

… isn’t what you think of when you think of a 94-year-old.

My FIL would be mortified at the idea of having my son “taking care” of him. If he needed or wanted that, he’d either move into a nearby assisted living place he’s always talked about going to, or he’d hire a nurse. If we moved in with him, he’d want to spin it as him doing us a favor, which would be fine.

He walks with a cane, but he’s not homebound. He works out at a gym at least a few times per week. He has a doctorate and keeps his mind busy with lots of reading and being active at his church. Despite his grief, he’s carrying on better than I expected.

We’re very aware that he could decline suddenly at any time. That’s why we’re nearby. But he wouldn’t be the first person in his family to live past 100.

My wife and her siblings have talked about how to settle the estate. And my FIL has a will. My guess is that they’d put the place on the market, but not right away. The family would probably donate the furniture. But his kids would want to spend time sifting through everything else.

This is way too much interference with your own lives in your own home. This goes beyond imposition and it will not go well over time.

You don’t need to add to your own stress in order to cater to his wishes.

We have taken in numerous relatives and even some non-relatives over the years and have young relatives living with us now in our small home. Without knowing ALL of the factors, I would say that your and your wife's mental health and the condition of your marriage outweighs your son's discomfort about his late grandmother.

about his grandmother.

No one seems to be considering the fact that he could be actively mourning, as I was when I lost grandparents at a similar age.

And it's not a little thing to ask a 20 year old to be the primary caretaker of a dying grandparent -- which is how this situation could easily turn out. The grandson's smart enough to see that, even if most people here don't.

I do believe that everything has to be considered, but I've had personal experience with how taking a family member in can cause tragic damage to a marriage.

My general approach is that nothing matters more than the children and youngsters and almost no sacrifice is too great, but destruction of a marriage is a bridge too far.

Perhaps the solution requires fixing the relationship between the mother and son as a first step.

For about 6 months. It caused them a bit of stress, I'm sure.

Then my daughter moved in with me and my fiance when she was 25. She's now 27 and still here, going to college and working. We let her stay rent-free for the first six months, and now she pays some rent. A lot less than if she were on her own or even a roommate elsewhere.

I told her long ago that there are only 3 "needs", food, clothing, and shelter, and I would always help her out with those 3 whenever I could.

Another left for college and then came back home, figured things out, and went to another college, closer to home. He lived with us while he was in school and we were happy he had some money saved when he moved into his own place.

Both of our children, and their children, would always be welcome here, even if they had to stay on a couch in the living room.