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mahatmakanejeeves

(60,933 posts)
Sat Feb 1, 2020, 04:06 PM Feb 2020

HS student punished for not standing for Pledge of Allegiance

ShrugHat Retweeted

Scenes from a lawsuit by HS student punished for not standing for Pledge of Allegiance:
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School: Standing for pledge also lets us see if you're complying with the dress code

Student: Can't you just check me before or after

School: Negative
https://www.pennlive.com/news/2020/01/pa-student-says-school-district-is-violating-his-rights-by-punishing-him-for-not-standing-for-the-pledge-of-allegiance.html



Pennsylvania Real-Time News

Pa. student files civil rights suit over refusal to stand for pledge in school

Updated Jan 31, 1:53 PM; Posted Jan 31, 10:27 AM

By Matt Miller | mmiller@pennlive.com

A midstate high school student has filed a federal lawsuit, claiming his school district is violating his civil rights, including his right to free speech, by punishing him because he won’t stand to recite the Pledge of Allegiance. ... The 16-year-old junior, identified in the U.S. Middle District complaint only by his initials, X.F., claims Lebanon High School officials have repeatedly placed him on in-school suspension for his stance.

X.F. claims in the suit, filed by New Jersey attorney Judith A. Gran, that he refuses to stand for the pledge “because of his religious and political beliefs.” ... School district officials declined to comment on the suit Friday morning, saying they have not yet seen it.

According to the suit, X.F.’s battle of wills began during his first-period math class on Oct. 7. When his classmates stood to recite the pledge “X.F. sat quietly and respectfully, causing no disturbance,” the suit states. He claims his teacher told him to stand, and when he refused, he was sent to the principal’s office. ... The principal “interrogated” him about his actions, X.F. claims, and told him teachers check students for compliance with the district’s dress code while they are standing for the pledge.

“X.F. was in compliance with the dress code,” the suit states. His offer to stand for a dress code compliance check before or after the reciting of the pledge was rejected, X.F. contends. ... What followed, he claims, was a pattern of his refusal to stand followed by in-school suspensions. X.F., an honor student and a student-athlete, says he ended up spending every first period in the principal’s office, missed math class and flunked that course.

{snip}

One of the things that makes me most hopeless is that not participating in the Pledge has been a right recognized by SCOTUS for 77 fucking years and every time one of these stories comes up, ignorant totalitarian assholes are howling for the kids to be punished.


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HS student punished for not standing for Pledge of Allegiance (Original Post) mahatmakanejeeves Feb 2020 OP
Coming to a school near you.. mark my words... pangaia Feb 2020 #1
At this rate, he's going to swap out the flag with a portrait dewsgirl Feb 2020 #2
This sounds like a good case for the ACLU to look into. Arkansas Granny Feb 2020 #3
I hope the court protects him. Karadeniz Feb 2020 #4
West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette, 1943 mahatmakanejeeves Feb 2020 #5
So the pledge is reduced to checking dress code....... Historic NY Feb 2020 #6
I don't think they thought that response through before offering it as an excuse. NT mahatmakanejeeves Feb 2020 #7
Some of the students I sub for don't stand up. LastLiberal in PalmSprings Feb 2020 #8
In Baraboo, WI there were boys giving the Nazi salute and didn't get in trouble. CaptYossarian Feb 2020 #9
i think WI stops the pledge shit after kindergarten. pansypoo53219 Feb 2020 #10

mahatmakanejeeves

(60,933 posts)
5. West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette, 1943
Sat Feb 1, 2020, 04:18 PM
Feb 2020

Thursday, June 14, 2018:

Happy 75th anniversary, West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette

If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein.


West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette

Argued March 11, 1943
Decided June 14, 1943


West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943), is a decision by the United States Supreme Court holding that the Free Speech Clause of the First Amendment protects students from being forced to salute the American flag or say the Pledge of Allegiance in public school. The Court's 6–3 decision, delivered by Justice Robert H. Jackson, is remembered for its forceful defense of free speech and constitutional rights generally as being placed "beyond the reach of majorities and officials."

Barnette overruled a 1940 decision on the same issue, Minersville School District v. Gobitis, in which the Court stated that the proper recourse for dissent was to try to change the public school policy democratically. It was a significant court victory won by Jehovah's Witnesses, whose religion forbade them from saluting or pledging to symbols, including symbols of political institutions. However, the Court did not address the effect the compelled salutation and recital ruling had upon their particular religious beliefs but instead ruled that the state did not have the power to compel speech in that manner for anyone. In overruling Gobitis the Court primarily relied on the Free Speech Clause of the First Amendment rather than the Free Exercise Clause.
....

Decision of the Court

The Court held, in a 6-to-3 decision delivered by Justice Jackson, that it was unconstitutional for public schools to compel students to salute the flag. It thus overruled its decision in Minersville School District v. Gobitis (1940), finding that the flag salute was "a form of utterance" and "a primitive but effective means of communicating ideas." The Court wrote that any "compulsory unification of opinion" was doomed to failure and was antithetical to the values set forth in the First Amendment. The Court stated:

If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein.

The Supreme Court announced its decision on June 14, Flag Day.
....

Robert H. Jackson



Robert Houghwout Jackson (February 13, 1892 – October 9, 1954) was an American attorney and judge who served as an Associate Justice of the United States Supreme Court. He had previously served as United States Solicitor General, and United States Attorney General, and is the only person to have held all three of those offices. Jackson was also notable for his work as the Chief United States Prosecutor at the Nuremberg Trials of Nazi war criminals following World War II.

Jackson was admitted to the bar through a combination of reading law with an established attorney, and attending law school. He is the most recent justice without a law degree to be appointed to the Supreme Court. Jackson is well known for his advice that, "Any lawyer worth his salt will tell the suspect, in no uncertain terms, to make no statement to the police under any circumstances", and for his aphorism describing the Supreme Court, "We are not final because we are infallible, but we are infallible only because we are final." Jackson developed a reputation as one of the best writers on the Supreme Court, and one of the most committed to enforcing due process as protection from overreaching federal agencies.
....

Historic NY

(37,851 posts)
6. So the pledge is reduced to checking dress code.......
Sat Feb 1, 2020, 04:27 PM
Feb 2020

the school has made it meaningless except as a tool, how patriotic is that.

8. Some of the students I sub for don't stand up.
Sat Feb 1, 2020, 05:03 PM
Feb 2020

This is their right, and I tell them that.

But when they start joking around during the Pledge that's where I draw the line. I tell them they have the right to sit -- that I spent nearly 20 years in the military to give to protect and defend the Constitution that gives them that right -- but I insist that they not disrespect those who choose to say the Pledge by acting like idiots while it's being said. That's not about making a political statement, it's just plain rude to your fellow students.

I haven't heard anything from the school district yet.

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