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mahatmakanejeeves

(61,138 posts)
Mon Apr 25, 2022, 10:48 AM Apr 2022

In the case of the praying football coach, both sides invoke religious freedom

CASE PREVIEW

In the case of the praying football coach, both sides invoke religious freedom

By Amy Howe
on Apr 24, 2022 at 6:27 pm


Joseph Kennedy, a former football coach at Bremerton High School in Washington state. (First Liberty Institute)

Joseph Kennedy had never coached football when Bremerton High School, a public school near Seattle, Washington, hired him in 2008. He was too small to play in high school, and his football experience was limited to playing for two years while he was in Hawaii serving in the Marines. ... Kennedy describes the school district’s decision to hire him to coach the school’s junior varsity team and to serve as an assistant for the varsity team as a “fluke”: His wife worked for the school district, and the athletic director thought he might be a good fit because of his military background. Fourteen years later, the man who was hired as a fluke will be at the Supreme Court, contesting the school district’s decision not to renew his contract because of his post-game prayers at the 50-yard line.

Kennedy is not just trying to get his old job back. He’s also hoping to win a constitutional clash at the intersection of three First Amendment rights: the right to worship, the right to free speech, and the right of students to be free from religion imposed by school officials.

Like many cases involving school prayer, Kennedy v. Bremerton School District, which will be argued on Monday, is hotly contested. Kelly Shackelford, the president and CEO of First Liberty Institute, which is representing Kennedy, says a victory for Kennedy would be a victory “for everybody” that would merely reaffirm the rights to freedom of religion and free speech. By contrast, Rachel Laser, the president of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, which represents the school district, warns that a ruling for Kennedy would be “a radical departure from decades of well-established law protecting students’ religious freedom.”

But in this case, Kennedy and the school district disagree not only about the legal issues and their implications, but also about many of the facts, including exactly why Kennedy lost his job. Kennedy says he was fired for briefly and privately praying at midfield; Laser and the school district counter that he was suspended for “refusing to stop holding public prayers at the 50-yard line,” which created both pressure for students to join him and “genuine safety concerns for students on the fields because of the spectacle that ensued from his media outreach on praying.”

{snip}

This article was originally published at Howe on the Court.

{snip}

Recommended Citation: Amy Howe, In the case of the praying football coach, both sides invoke religious freedom, SCOTUSblog (Apr. 24, 2022, 6:27 PM), https://www.scotusblog.com/2022/04/in-the-case-of-the-praying-football-coach-both-sides-invoke-religious-freedom/
22 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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In the case of the praying football coach, both sides invoke religious freedom (Original Post) mahatmakanejeeves Apr 2022 OP
Nothing seems quiet and private exboyfil Apr 2022 #1
IMO, there has never been anything quiet or private about christianity. Just the walkingman Apr 2022 #14
Even apart from the obvious First Amendment issues, praying for a sport victory Ocelot II Apr 2022 #2
but only one side abides by the rules of the school samnsara Apr 2022 #3
Praying to God? Turbineguy Apr 2022 #4
As long as he didn't lead others, I don't see the issue. Gore1FL Apr 2022 #5
Pete Williams just said on MSNBC... targetpractice Apr 2022 #9
He was told NOT to do it! Grins Apr 2022 #15
Muslim prayer mats on the field. Inshallah. cbabe Apr 2022 #6
Actually an interesting case: When does the undeniable Tomconroy Apr 2022 #7
Could this ruling open the door to sacrificing goats on the 50-yard line? sop Apr 2022 #8
I'd love to see prayers to Odin or Zeus or Isis on the 50th yard line DBoon Apr 2022 #12
Hey, if individual religious freedom overrides every other consideration... Girard442 Apr 2022 #10
Many of our right wing brethren want to put public prayer and the Bible back in the schools. keithbvadu2 Apr 2022 #11
The parents who approve of christian prayers in public schools are the same ones who support sop Apr 2022 #13
I guess he just likes to wash the outside of the cup. n/t iscooterliberally Apr 2022 #16
I'm assuming this is being done by Christians and I suppose that despite religious freedom being Karadeniz Apr 2022 #17
Noted Woke activist and suspected antifa advocate: SCantiGOP Apr 2022 #18
Ummmmmmm, close, but... mahatmakanejeeves Apr 2022 #19
Eh? SCantiGOP Apr 2022 #20
What will they say/do when it is not their version of Christianity in charge? keithbvadu2 Apr 2022 #21
Make sure your prayer is a public spectacle. keithbvadu2 Apr 2022 #22

walkingman

(8,395 posts)
14. IMO, there has never been anything quiet or private about christianity. Just the
Mon Apr 25, 2022, 12:20 PM
Apr 2022

opposite. Every Christian I have ever met always wants to tell me about it whether I want to hear it or not.

If they didn't tell me, how would I know they were Christian?? Maybe a sticker on their car? or some chachkies in their home?

I was walking in my neighborhood and a lady stopped her car to tell me about a "prayer throw" she and her friends were making. I asked what that meant....they pray for people while they are making it....I asked "does that really work?" Of course....she has never spoken to me since....What's up with that?

Ocelot II

(121,119 posts)
2. Even apart from the obvious First Amendment issues, praying for a sport victory
Mon Apr 25, 2022, 10:58 AM
Apr 2022

has always struck me as an obnoxiously superficial waste of God's time, maybe even borderline blasphemous - if you believe in God - and even if you don't, it's still obnoxious and superficial.

samnsara

(18,290 posts)
3. but only one side abides by the rules of the school
Mon Apr 25, 2022, 11:01 AM
Apr 2022

..and there are plenty of other christian based private schools that coach can go pray at.

Gore1FL

(21,931 posts)
5. As long as he didn't lead others, I don't see the issue.
Mon Apr 25, 2022, 11:08 AM
Apr 2022

It's a far cry from praying in a closet and shutting the door behind him, however.

targetpractice

(4,919 posts)
9. Pete Williams just said on MSNBC...
Mon Apr 25, 2022, 11:14 AM
Apr 2022

A crowd joined him "spontaneously", and the coach called a State Legislator to participate in the gathering. Pete Williams said it was a "spectacle."

Grins

(7,906 posts)
15. He was told NOT to do it!
Mon Apr 25, 2022, 12:34 PM
Apr 2022

By his superiors on the school board.
He did it anyway.
Insubordination is a firing offense in EVERY company and government office.
The religious “Freedumb!” defense is a diversion.

 

Tomconroy

(7,611 posts)
7. Actually an interesting case: When does the undeniable
Mon Apr 25, 2022, 11:11 AM
Apr 2022

right to practice one's religion amount to an attempt to establish a state religion.
The case will be very fact driven so if the facts aren't clear it should be remanded.
It's not obvious what he was praying for. It wasn't victory since the prayer occurred after the game.
9 judges from the 9th Circuit dissented in favor of the coach's claim? If that's true he will certainly win before this supreme court.
Good article. Scotusblog. I should have known.

sop

(11,299 posts)
8. Could this ruling open the door to sacrificing goats on the 50-yard line?
Mon Apr 25, 2022, 11:11 AM
Apr 2022

(New York Times) "The Supreme Court ruled that Hialeah's ban on ritual animal sacrifice violated the religious freedom of the followers of an Afro-Cuban religion in which the sacrifice of animals plays a central role...All nine Justices agreed that the prohibition, enacted in 1987 by the City of Hialeah, violated the First Amendment's guarantee of the free exercise of religion."

DBoon

(23,084 posts)
12. I'd love to see prayers to Odin or Zeus or Isis on the 50th yard line
Mon Apr 25, 2022, 12:03 PM
Apr 2022

If you allow one ancient superstition in, why not have them all?

Girard442

(6,413 posts)
10. Hey, if individual religious freedom overrides every other consideration...
Mon Apr 25, 2022, 11:16 AM
Apr 2022

...then those Satan-worshipping coaches are about to have their day.

keithbvadu2

(40,231 posts)
11. Many of our right wing brethren want to put public prayer and the Bible back in the schools.
Mon Apr 25, 2022, 11:38 AM
Apr 2022

Many of our right wing brethren want to put public prayer and the Bible back in the schools.

They have no qualms about using the gov't to foist their own religious beliefs on the children in public schools without letting the parents decide how they want their children raised.

sop

(11,299 posts)
13. The parents who approve of christian prayers in public schools are the same ones who support
Mon Apr 25, 2022, 12:20 PM
Apr 2022

banning CRT, "don't say gay" legislation and eliminating certain textbooks. They believe parents should decide what their children are exposed to in the schools...so long as they approve of it.

Karadeniz

(23,442 posts)
17. I'm assuming this is being done by Christians and I suppose that despite religious freedom being
Mon Apr 25, 2022, 12:47 PM
Apr 2022

invoked, questioning about religious belief won't happen. To a truly spiritual person, following spiritual beliefs is more important than seeking legal support. Jesus makes it crystal clear that prayer is a personal affair conducted in private. So why would a sincere Christian go to the courts to legally defy Jesus's instructions? Makes no sense. The courts have already given Christians time for silent prayer, in accordance with Jesus's mandate. When the courts have already supported Christian doctrine, why would a Christian want that verdict overturned.

SCantiGOP

(14,278 posts)
18. Noted Woke activist and suspected antifa advocate:
Mon Apr 25, 2022, 01:48 PM
Apr 2022

“Erecting a wall between church and State is the only way to guarantee a free society.”
—— Thomas Jefferson

mahatmakanejeeves

(61,138 posts)
19. Ummmmmmm, close, but...
Mon Apr 25, 2022, 02:08 PM
Apr 2022

A lot of quotes attributed to Jefferson aren't things he said. This one is a lot closer than most, but let's go to the source to see what he really did say.

Home

Thomas Jefferson and Religious Freedom

An Article Courtesy Of The Thomas Jefferson Encyclopedia. Click For More.

Thomas Jefferson has been closely associated with religious freedom for more than two centuries. In the first Supreme Court case addressing the religion clauses of the First Amendment, Reynolds v. United States, the Court unanimously agreed that Jefferson’s Statute for Religious Freedom “defined” religious liberty and “the true distinction between what properly belongs to the church and what to the State.”

{snip}

ADDITIONAL QUOTES

“Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should ‘make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,’ thus building a wall of separation between Church & State.”19

{snip}

- John Ragosta, 4/16/18

{snip}

19.Jefferson to Danbury Baptists, January 1, 1802, in PTJ, 36:258. Transcription available at Founders Online.

V. To the Danbury Baptist Association, 1 January 1802

V. To the Danbury Baptist Association

Gentlemen Jan. 1. 1802.

The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful & zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should “make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,” thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.

Th: Jefferson

SCantiGOP

(14,278 posts)
20. Eh?
Mon Apr 25, 2022, 02:46 PM
Apr 2022

The phrase “separation of church and state” derives from a letter by President Jefferson in 1802 where he wrote: “Erecting the wall of separation between church and state…is absolutely essential in a free society.” The wellspring of American anti-establishment thinking, however, was Jefferson's successor, James Madison ...

keithbvadu2

(40,231 posts)
21. What will they say/do when it is not their version of Christianity in charge?
Mon Apr 25, 2022, 05:12 PM
Apr 2022

What will they say/do when it is not their version of Christianity in charge?


http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/americas-true-history-of-religious-tolerance-61312684/?no-ist= ;

Madison also made a point that any believer of any religion should understand: that the government sanction of a religion was, in essence, a threat to religion. "Who does not see," he wrote, "that the same authority which can establish Christianity, in exclusion of all other Religions, may establish with the same ease any particular sect of Christians, in exclusion of all other Sects?" Madison was writing from his memory of Baptist ministers being arrested in his native Virginia.

keithbvadu2

(40,231 posts)
22. Make sure your prayer is a public spectacle.
Mon Apr 25, 2022, 05:45 PM
Apr 2022

Matthew 6:5-8 King James Version

5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

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