If you watched the HBO Documentary 'VITO' about Vito Russo, there is a segment about issues that unite gay women with straight women based on social-economic issues some 40 years ago like income equality that some said early in our history divide gay women and men. There are others who point out the enormous support lesbians gave gay men 30 years ago during the start of the AIDS epidemic. Do we have more in common than our differences?

Forgive me if I am simple, but I have no idea what you are talking about.

I am straight.

I want all people to have the same rights as me.

What else is there?

In fact women as a group do.

Do you think income equality is as important to gay men as Lesbians?

plays any roll in whether or not someone thinks income inequality is an important issue.

I think a sense of empathy for others we don't know is the biggest factor in determining how people feel about income inequality for women, civil rights, etc.

I have lesbian and gay friends and both sides are pretty intelligent. They see people being hurt or mistreated and they respond with compassion and usually are helpful if action is needed to resolve problems.

Anyone who isn't gay or lived the discrimination of being a woman in this world can have problems "really" getting it. Any ONE of us can be empathetic to a point and still not KNOW the full experience because it isn't possible to BE another person.

STILL, it's kind of divisive to say, "They" (whoever they are) "Don't understand how my life is so much worse, different etc.."

Once this type of finger pointing and dividing people up into different groups goes, gee, you have discrimination and I don't think that's where you want to go with this.

You write: 'Any ONE of us can be empathetic to a point and still not KNOW the full experience because it isn't possible to BE another person.'

Agree completely. I'ved heard one or two black male straight friends demonstrate resentment when I compare gay civil rights to the civil rights movement arguing I don't know what it's like to be black......all true.

But I do know what it is like to be denied a job, face violence, have laws used to deny my dignity, be verbally abused, etc.

Is there a difference between the struggles of gay men and women?

But I do know what it is like to be denied a job, face violence, have laws used to deny my dignity, be verbally abused, etc.

Is there a difference between the struggles of gay men and women?

But you are naive if you think each community fully understands and has empathy for the other. The self segregation is pretty pronounced at most bars or fund raisers I go to and I think that benefits no one.

I wrote 'Having laws used to deny your dignity? Where is there a difference? IF ANYONE is oppressed WE ARE ALL oppressed.'

Agree completely.

for example, although there are likely as many lesbians as gay men here, gay men have 3 well attended bars/clubs in Honolulu (waikiki), while there is no bar/club that one might call predominantly lesbian most of the time that I have been able to find. The lesbian culture is pretty much underground and off the radar in that sense.

Don't know why that is however.

Wonder Why.....maybe the economics of bar ownership opportunities gay men have...that gay women do not need or want or are not there....just talking it out.

An adult daughter and granddaughter... I became a strong femnist the moment I held my little one. The world is hers ..... And I will stand up for her for any battle.

I don't see why I would do less for any lesbian

How could you not be a feminist!!!!

True.

Do You Feel Gay Men Do Not Understand the Issues Facing Lesbians that May Be Different for Women?

Some gay men do not understand the issues facing lesbians because lesbians are women. Some do.

Some women do not understand the issues they might share with women who are lesbian. Some do.

I'd guess there are some lesbians who do not understand the issues they share with women who aren't lesbians. Some do.

I'd guess you can come up with a similar range of answers for any question that presupposes that members of a group are uniform in their understanding of members of other groups. The motives for presupposing that may not be uniform but many of those motives are less than helpful.

....don't figure in the discussion because not everyone .....shows emphathy or understanding?

I certainly didn't mean to presuppose anything but I think you make my point for discussion.

A question that asks something, generally, about gay men not understanding the situation of Lesbians, sharing problems common to women, rather begs the question. You assume that is a general attribute of gay men when it's only an attribute of some gay men, not all gay men.

I'd never assume that kind of generalization about Lesbians or any other group, Republicans after Bush II a near exception to that rule.

And I've cried when I got hidden but that was pretty sexuality descriptive. She said carpet.

It was wrong and offensive and the poster denigrated themselves.

I just think hiding it just attracks more attention to it.

Oh well. I found my copy of the Boys of Boise. Old histories from 1955. The year I was born. I really wanted someone to talk with about being hunted and entrapped, when I tried to talk about what I saw as symbolism in the friends of Dorothy comment to start a discussion.
I the article was interesting that that crap was still happening in the 70's. That is so recent to me.

The hunters tried to find a real Dorothy. They were that small minded and ignorant. How could that have been allowed to go on in what I still consider this day and age?

...but will try to find!

Lots of court proceedings. But a real expose' of the madness gone wrong with a big political entrapment scandal. You might find internet references.

John Gerassi wrote it. Mine's from 1966.

Probably worth something to someone today.

My collection of gay literature didn't start until the 70s, but one of my favorite books of the 50s is James Baldwin's Giovanni's Room. There is one page somewhere between 60-70 pages in that I remember tagging that has left an impression on me decades later. I think that's pretty amazing for literature.

Is so important in linking to the past so it is not forgotten.
The book presents a very strong case against what were the laws against homosexuality, back in the day.

Any favorite books?

But thanks for informing us that this post got you banned in another forum group. I didn't know ... Nah, wait. I think I do. Your sign was just too big to read.

Please, and that's not much to ask since your a fellow host now, to refer to the forum you host as a 'group,' which it is, and get the name of the forum group right?

You can call me anything you want subject to TOS.

Can I do the same in the group you host once you unblock me?

Any more. It really was Larry's wide stance.

.

What a joy.

Because my daughter is a Lesbian and the gay men she knows support ALL women because they know that ALL women have and ARE being discriminated against, as THEY ARE. I can say that my best friend as a young woman was a GAY MAN, and he ALWAYS supported equal rights for me, and for ALL women.

As a gay man, I completely support women's and lesbian rights.

I raise the issue because I've had some interesting conversations with gays women who argue their primary focus is pay equality, which differs from most gay men, as they would argue.

I think gay men understand the issues because lesbian issue are women issues.
Women are paid less and "strong" women are paid even less because they are discriminated against.
Why do you think PrezO had to sign Ledbetter?
Of course this is a generalization, but I think society see strong women as bitches and lesbian are perceived to be STRONG.
Even if your not a "butch" lesbian - you're a woman and immediately second tier.
Gay men, whether butch or fem over all have an easier time with employment.
Again, I OVER-GENERALIZE to make a point - from personal experience.

I agree. I think the primary driver of both lesbian and women's issues are economic. My perception, however, is that strong perceived women often have the benefit and possibility of risking and losing more than strong men and/or indifferent women. At the same time, I think much depends on the profession regardless of the gender. For gay men, it can be the opposite of being 'strong'. Society can or at least used to consider us weak. I suspect that is changing. Certainly both gay men and lesbians can face discrimination.

Any discussion around these issues is sure to be fraught with the possibility of over generalization, but that's no reason to ignore. So I agree and try to be respectful of others whose experience is different.

I would say I can understand some issues Lesbians face. The ones we have in common when dealing with our commonality of being attracted to the same gender and the bigotry that comes from that from family and society.

As a man, there are issues Lesbians face that are a result of being female that, while I may sympathize with and intellectually realize their issue, I will never have the internalized understanding that another woman may have.

At least not 100%.

But then again, I doubt that despite having a parent who is a lesbian, she doesn't know entirely the issues gay men have.

and fortuane for me, she was always available to discuss some of lifes tough issues with me!

Call her and tell her!

because now she has Alzheimer's. Next Monday marks the end of the second year since my partner and I moved back to provide her a home. She and I still have a good relationship. She told me two years ago during a moment of clarity that no matter what else she has forgotten, she would always remember me...Most days she can't remember my name, but does remember I am one of her "babies". And when she does finally lose that part of her memory, well I'll just remember for the both of us!

My partner and I are dealing with his father's Alzheimer's. Not fun.

You'll have to do that. It's a terrible disease. Terrible.

My thoughts are with your family.