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Blue_Tires

(55,784 posts)
Fri Apr 5, 2013, 12:41 PM Apr 2013

Gun control: How a US liberal learned to love guns

Freelance writer Dan Baum is a self-described gun guy. But even though he has 15 firearms locked in a cabinet in his garage and loves an outing at the shooting range, he does not exactly fit the stereotype.

"I am a Jewish, liberal Democrat and a gun guy," he says, "which in the US is a very weird hybrid."

The writer, who grew up in New Jersey and now lives in Colorado, says he is representative of millions of ordinary gun-owning Americans.

He wants both sides of the gun control debate - the politicians who want background checks as well as the National Rifle Association, which opposes new regulations - to listen to what these "average gun guys" want.

For his new book Gun Guys: A Road Trip, Mr Baum travelled across the US and met a variety of gun owners, from those blasting automatic weapons in the desert to a school teacher hunting pigs.

He talked to the BBC about his attempt to explain his own and Americans' fascination with firearms.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22018736

69 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Gun control: How a US liberal learned to love guns (Original Post) Blue_Tires Apr 2013 OP
The video on YT Paul E Ester Apr 2013 #1
His gun cabinet Paul E Ester Apr 2013 #2
I would bet this guy is for background checks and record keeping. nt rdharma Apr 2013 #3
And I'll bet he ISN'T ... Straw Man Apr 2013 #4
No bet. rdharma Apr 2013 #5
OK. Straw Man Apr 2013 #6
I would support record keeping if there was a clause in the bill premium Apr 2013 #7
This is the problem with trying to reduce this fear...a clause is wonderful jmg257 Apr 2013 #11
Some one, some where should be able to come up with a safeguard premium Apr 2013 #12
Yep...just wait to see how you feel when they start kicking your butt on XBox. jmg257 Apr 2013 #19
XBox? premium Apr 2013 #21
A solution has been proposed here at DU. GreenStormCloud Apr 2013 #36
That is a variation of the FOID approach. I support it. ProgressiveProfessor Apr 2013 #51
As long as it doubles as a voter ID, sure. CobblePuller Apr 2013 #60
"enable confiscation" rdharma Apr 2013 #8
It already happened in CA. premium Apr 2013 #9
So which ones were "confiscated"? nt rdharma Apr 2013 #13
The SKS rifles. premium Apr 2013 #15
So tell me...... which ones? rdharma Apr 2013 #18
Sorry I wasn't more detailed. premium Apr 2013 #20
SKS "sporter rifle"? rdharma Apr 2013 #22
SKS was originally a Soviet designed rifle used in WWII. premium Apr 2013 #24
Yes. Straw Man Apr 2013 #26
Finally! rdharma Apr 2013 #35
Really? Straw Man Apr 2013 #10
Which SKSs "confiscated" in CA? nt rdharma Apr 2013 #14
What do you mean which ones? premium Apr 2013 #16
Evidently you don't know. nt rdharma Apr 2013 #17
Not quite. Straw Man Apr 2013 #28
You're correct. premium Apr 2013 #31
These. Straw Man Apr 2013 #23
That's the letter I was looking for. premium Apr 2013 #25
So....... you don't know, eh? rdharma Apr 2013 #27
What? Straw Man Apr 2013 #29
Oh, you did? Where was that stated? rdharma Apr 2013 #32
Here. Straw Man Apr 2013 #34
Sole purpose here is to disrupt. premium Apr 2013 #33
You got that right. sylvi Apr 2013 #37
Confiscation claim...... not verified! rdharma Apr 2013 #39
So when you get a letter ... Straw Man Apr 2013 #42
Did you get that letter? rdharma Apr 2013 #43
I linked it above. Straw Man Apr 2013 #44
So you didn't get the letter..... and you don't know of any confiscations! nt rdharma Apr 2013 #50
And you didn't land on the moon. Straw Man Apr 2013 #54
Oh, do tell..... ONE EXAMPLE? rdharma Apr 2013 #55
Oh FFS. How about the LA Times? Straw Man Apr 2013 #56
FTW! derby378 Apr 2013 #57
Chuck Michel - His clients include the National Rifle Assn. ......... nt rdharma Apr 2013 #58
And the LA Times doesn't fact-check? Straw Man Apr 2013 #59
Good God Man -- CokeMachine Apr 2013 #45
I think it's the notary seal. It doesn't impress on his screen like paper. Eleanors38 Sep 2015 #69
Average Gun Guys BeyondGeography Apr 2013 #30
We do. Thanks. (n/t) spin Apr 2013 #41
Thanks! But there are a lot of lasses, too. Eleanors38 Apr 2013 #64
I finished reading his book a couple of days ago. GreenStormCloud Apr 2013 #38
So.... is MR. Baum for UBC and record keeping? nt rdharma Apr 2013 #40
Did you watch the video? eom CokeMachine Apr 2013 #46
Yes. Did you? nt rdharma Apr 2013 #47
Yep -- he's all for background checks -- did I miss something? eom CokeMachine Apr 2013 #48
he's all for background checks rdharma Apr 2013 #49
Then why did you ask it ten times? CokeMachine Apr 2013 #52
"What were you trying to accomplish?" rdharma Apr 2013 #53
The day I see you have a point here... CobblePuller Apr 2013 #61
It's pretty obvious at this point premium Apr 2013 #62
Cut the disruption & hijacking. nt Eleanors38 Apr 2013 #63
Truth? You can't stand the truth! rdharma Apr 2013 #65
If you are going to attempt to post a quote from a movie, Jenoch Apr 2013 #67
I don't get your point Blue_Tires Apr 2013 #66
great point. ileus Sep 2015 #68

Straw Man

(6,771 posts)
6. OK.
Fri Apr 5, 2013, 01:52 PM
Apr 2013
AWB & mag limit laws not needed with universal background checks and record keeping.

Glad to hear you say that. No, really, I am. Now if we could make sure that the UBC and record-keeping were not and would never be used to enable confiscation ...

The devil is in the details.
 

premium

(3,731 posts)
7. I would support record keeping if there was a clause in the bill
Fri Apr 5, 2013, 02:01 PM
Apr 2013

banning the use of such registry for use to confiscate firearms from lawful owners.
I do fully support the UCB, enhanced penalties for straw purchase's and I wouldn't really have a problem with a mag limit much like CO, although I really don't see how that would decrease crime.

jmg257

(11,996 posts)
11. This is the problem with trying to reduce this fear...a clause is wonderful
Fri Apr 5, 2013, 02:28 PM
Apr 2013

and 1 I thought of too, but then any clause could be overturned by the next bill, and then it is too late.

Who could the information be given to to keep it safe, but still usable, or how could it be secured so IF confiscation was to ever occur it would be useless?

Some new techonology out there somewhere... Maybe a data base delete button that kicks in the moment someone in legislation says "we need to ban..."

Hmmm...

 

premium

(3,731 posts)
12. Some one, some where should be able to come up with a safeguard
Fri Apr 5, 2013, 02:31 PM
Apr 2013

to prevent a registry from being used as a confiscation tool.
Certainly not me, as my youngest daughter used to tell me, "Dad, you really are computer stupid!"

jmg257

(11,996 posts)
19. Yep...just wait to see how you feel when they start kicking your butt on XBox.
Fri Apr 5, 2013, 03:15 PM
Apr 2013

My son takes all the fun out of Halo...almost.

I can still do OK with my daughter though!

GreenStormCloud

(12,072 posts)
36. A solution has been proposed here at DU.
Fri Apr 5, 2013, 03:52 PM
Apr 2013

Each drivers license should have an entry on it that shows if a person is qualified to buy a gun.

 

CobblePuller

(38 posts)
60. As long as it doubles as a voter ID, sure.
Sat Apr 6, 2013, 12:29 PM
Apr 2013

ID requirement for one Constitutional Right, ID requirement for all of them.

 

premium

(3,731 posts)
9. It already happened in CA.
Fri Apr 5, 2013, 02:12 PM
Apr 2013

Those with assault weapons were required to register them and then the state decided to ban certain ones, guess what they used to determine who had what?
They were all sent letters by Bill Lockyear demanding that they either be turned in, rendered inoperable, or taken out of state.
So, no, it's not a rightie conspiracy, it's a real concern for gun owners.

 

premium

(3,731 posts)
15. The SKS rifles.
Fri Apr 5, 2013, 03:01 PM
Apr 2013

I can't find the letter that was sent out to the owners of those rifles, it's been posted here before.
But the CA AG used the registry to find out who had those particular rifles and then sent those letters out.
So, yes, that's why there's deep mistrust of a national registry.

 

premium

(3,731 posts)
24. SKS was originally a Soviet designed rifle used in WWII.
Fri Apr 5, 2013, 03:29 PM
Apr 2013
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SKS.

This confiscation happened a number of years ago. The original from the CA DOJ has been posted here before, I just can't find it right now.
Perhaps someone who has it can post it.
I know that CA tried to pass a law banning the possession of assault weapons just recently, but it died in commitee.

Straw Man

(6,771 posts)
26. Yes.
Fri Apr 5, 2013, 03:32 PM
Apr 2013
Who makes that?

Norinco. It's a Chinese-made SKS that has a thumbhole stock and takes AK magazines.



California allowed it first, if registered, then banned it, then did a mandatory buyback.
 

rdharma

(6,057 posts)
35. Finally!
Fri Apr 5, 2013, 03:51 PM
Apr 2013

But not confiscated?

When did this happen?

How about the Yugos with the grenade launchers? (Zastava)

Straw Man

(6,771 posts)
10. Really?
Fri Apr 5, 2013, 02:18 PM
Apr 2013
"enable confiscation"

Come on, man! That's rightie conspiracy theory talk.

Interesting. What about when California required registration of any SKS with a detachable magazine, and subsequently used the registration lists to confiscate said firearms upon deciding they should no longer be legal? Was that a figment of our collective imagination?

How about Australia doing the same thing when they banned certain classes of firearms after the Port Arthur massacre? Never happened?

Oh, you mean that couldn't happen here? Or again? Or whatever? OK, call me paranoid, call me skeptical, but indulge me: Reassure me by putting it into writing. Legislate me some guarantees and then we'll talk.

Straw Man

(6,771 posts)
29. What?
Fri Apr 5, 2013, 03:34 PM
Apr 2013
So....... you don't know, eh?

Thought so!

SKS models that take detachable mags. I just showed you. What are you babbling about now?

Straw Man

(6,771 posts)
34. Here.
Fri Apr 5, 2013, 03:42 PM
Apr 2013
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172118626#post26

Mandatory buyback. And the linked letter above refers to a mandatory surrender (no compensation) of all AWs (not only SKS) that were registered beyond a certain date, even though the error was the DOJ's and not the gunowners'.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172118626#post14

Straw Man

(6,771 posts)
42. So when you get a letter ...
Fri Apr 5, 2013, 04:38 PM
Apr 2013

... saying "Turn in this rifle or face criminal charges," what do you call that?

Straw Man

(6,771 posts)
56. Oh FFS. How about the LA Times?
Fri Apr 5, 2013, 08:30 PM
Apr 2013
Airline pilot Bill Doss actually wrote to the California Justice Department to confirm that his SKS rifle was legal to bring into the state. The department told Doss--and hundreds of others--that the law only applied to one type of SKS rifle and that his was legal. Then a court read the law more broadly and made thousands of people accidental felons because they had relied on the department's position. An unprecedented retroactive immunity law, which included a multimillion-dollar SKS buy-back program, was passed in 1998.

Then there are problems with registrations. The law requires "assault weapons" to be registered and establishes grace periods. Preferring to know where these guns are and believing the law allowed it, former Atty. Gen. Dan Lungren continued to encourage and accept grace period registrations through 1998. Handgun Control Inc. sued him. When Bill Lockyer was elected attorney general, he dropped the opposition to the Handgun Control lawsuit. As a result, thousands of registrations were invalidated and owners were "dispossessed" of their guns without any payment. So in California, registration indeed did lead to confiscation.

-- http://articles.latimes.com/2001/jul/23/local/me-25465


Surely they fact-check their op-eds. Or do you require a notarized eyewitness statement?

derby378

(30,261 posts)
57. FTW!
Fri Apr 5, 2013, 08:36 PM
Apr 2013

Then again, California walked away from the Second Amendment a long time ago. And they still have nasty problems with homicide and gang violence.

California's a lovely state, but I just want to tell its legislators...

Straw Man

(6,771 posts)
59. And the LA Times doesn't fact-check?
Fri Apr 5, 2013, 08:50 PM
Apr 2013

They let NRA mouthpieces spread disinformation in their august pages? Oh no! Shock! Horror! Why -- they're as bad as Fox!

 

CokeMachine

(1,018 posts)
45. Good God Man --
Fri Apr 5, 2013, 05:15 PM
Apr 2013

you could have just posted what you meant 15 posts ago. I believe (and it's only a belief) that your purpose here is simply to disrupt. There is something very familiar about your posting style. Do you have a brother or another relative that posts/posted here?

Just curious is all.

GreenStormCloud

(12,072 posts)
38. I finished reading his book a couple of days ago.
Fri Apr 5, 2013, 03:59 PM
Apr 2013

It is a good read. He uses a good bit of wit and humor and meets some interesting people in his travels. One of them is a black gun activist in Detroit who is trying to sell black people on the idea of owning guns and getting carry permits.

 

CokeMachine

(1,018 posts)
52. Then why did you ask it ten times?
Fri Apr 5, 2013, 05:33 PM
Apr 2013

You knew the answer but just kept asking . What were you trying to accomplish?

 

rdharma

(6,057 posts)
53. "What were you trying to accomplish?"
Fri Apr 5, 2013, 05:38 PM
Apr 2013

A better question would be...... What was the OP trying to accomplish?

Get my point?

 

premium

(3,731 posts)
62. It's pretty obvious at this point
Sat Apr 6, 2013, 12:36 PM
Apr 2013

that his sole purpose for being here is to disrupt, nothing more.

 

rdharma

(6,057 posts)
65. Truth? You can't stand the truth!
Sat Apr 6, 2013, 04:00 PM
Apr 2013

I was just trying to see if Mr. Baum was against REASONABLE gun control.

Any harm in that?

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