Hunted him down and shot him dead.

Gunstalking should be illegal, because it tends to lead to murder.

and thanks for the reply

Because a jury of his peers found that he broke no law. So he's not a murderer, though he did shoot and kill someone.

How the law works

"But" -- Acted very stupidly, the thing is, Martin was clearly in the right, up until the moment, he felt the need to climb on top of Zimmerman, and start pounding his head into the pavement.

That one mistake, turned George Zimmerman, from the aggressor, into the victim, and in the end clearly justified the shooting.

..You cannot retreat if your pinned to the ground, being pounded into the pavement..

there is no very good evidence either way.

I think Zimmermann clearly acted unwisely and perhaps provoked the attack.
Were I carrying, I would be acting quite the opposite. I'd be overly cautious to avoid any and all possible altercations.

IMHO, not being wrong doesn't lead to being right.

or as some jurors speculated that he was trying to answer the operator's "which way did he go". Maybe or maybe not. Dumb, but illegal.
Since it was night and raining, I concentrate on the road in front of me and not much else. Carrying or not, I wouldn't see a wet t shirt contest (I'm a straight guy) let alone what Zimmerman claimed he saw.

but he wouldn't have been covered by that either because he wasn't. He was driving to some store and told the cops he saw TM looking in windows like he was casing houses or something like that. He wasn't driving around playing security guard or anything like that. The media did an excellent job on misreporting it.

What was introduced in the Florida leg was to remove civil immunity. It failed.

I'd be interested.

neighborhood watchman and stalked a black kid just because he didn't recognize him... *after* he was told by police dispatch to remain at his vehicle until an officer arrived.

I don't know if he really broke any current Fla laws, since I moved away from Miami in 1994, but I can say one thing... I'm 52 years old, right at 6'3", 220 lbs and disabled, but if some strange fucker is following me around at night when I'm minding my own business you can bet your ass I'm going to confront him and ask him what his problem is.

When I was much younger, around 21 or 22, I had a dumbass stick a .44 Magnum in my face because he thought I was trying to take his girlfriend from him. I had an 8-ball of coke and about a half a bottle of Jim Beam in me and felt 10 feet tall and bulletproof. I started pushing my forhead into the barrel of his gun and daring him to pull the trigger. I was watching hid eyes the whole time and could see that he was getting flustered. I kicked him in the nuts and when he doubled over I punched him in the temple and snatched his gun from him and knocked him to the ground with it. I stuck the barrel down his throat, thumbcocked it back abd said "let me show you how to do this boy". I pulled his head up off the ground by his hair then took the gun out of his mouth and shot it into the ground right beside his head. The blast and sound broke his ear drum because I saw the blood start running out of his ear. I took the rest of his bullets out of the cylinder and threw them as far as I could and pistol-whipped his ass then told him "you just had your one chance to kill me. If I EVER see you within 100 yards of me again I'm going to kill you just for the principle of it". I never saw him again either.

I know it's easy to sound like an internet tough-guy, but this is a true story. At the time, I was into martial arts, was 235 lbs of solid muscle and a bouncer at a biker bar. I also look back and know that things could have turned out a lot different and I wouldn't be here now to tell the story. I got lucky and ran into someone who thought a gun made him tough, but he was too scared to pull the trigger. Until I was almost 30 years old I was also an enforcer for a well known 1%er MC gang and had been shot at several times, hit once, shot back at some and hit a couple, been stabbed twice, cut a few times and have had pool cues and bar stools broke over my head and back. I'm lucky to still be alive, and glad I got out when I did. I moved 2 states away and started a new life because I had a kid on the way. My daughter was born when I was 30 and my son when I was 31. I took a vow of non-violence, except in case of self defense or defense of my family, and have lived as a peaceful old hippie ever since.

Ghost

and dispatchers are not allowed to tell you to do anything. The prosecutors, however, did violate Florida law by with holding exculpatory evidence.

the definition of first aggressor is who throws the first punch or illegal act like putting a gun in someones face. There is no evidence to support the claim that Zimmerman did. If it existed, the prosecution failed to present it. In fact, they failed to present any evidence contradicted Zimmerman's self defense claim and went as far as asking the jury ignore the evidence and follow their hearts. One of the eye witnesses did give indications that it was actually Martin. Even the lead investigator, a prosecution witness, said they found no evidence that contradicted Zimmerman's claim. Meanwhile, I was sitting in the fourth row going "what the fuck is this?"

I wanted to see the racist POS that murdered a 12 year old, according to the pictures in the media, ummm swing shall we say. Then I learned that those were lies too. Those were lies from a PR firm Crump and Parks law hired to create political pressure for an arrest so they could make money from a wrongful death suit.

I started reading legal blogs like Talk Left and some with no ideology to see what I was missing. After the prosecution rested their case, I knew what the verdict was going to be, and I was pissed off. I wasn't pissed off at the system, but at the media who fucking lied to me. I was also pissed off at their POS governor, who I never liked anyway, for over riding the local DA by bringing in the very unethical Angela Corey as special prosecutor.

I sat through the entire trial first hand. Given the bullshit and dishonesty pushed by the media and pundits, I was pushed to complete cynicism. Nothing they wrote or said was true. In fact, it was such complete bullshit, I treat MSNBC and TYT the same as Fox: all fucking liars. I also treat Thom Hartman (who I was a big fan of before) the same as I do Bill O'Reilly: totally full of shit. He also knew the facts and chose to be dishonest for ideological loyalty. As far as I am concerned, he went from most trusted progressive pundit to dishonest lower than shit. As for the people who pushed the evidence free prosecution for financial and political gain, I have nothing but contempt. I agree with Alan Dershowitz, the prosecution was irresponsible and should be disbarred.

Stalk has specific meaning. Martin ran out of sight while Zimmerman was in the car. Zimmerman also claimed Martin was on someone's property, looking in windows like he was casing the place. This was an area were there were a lot of recent break ins and home invasions. BTW, where is no "watchman" there is no patrols. The guy was driving to the store.

Nothing he did would be illegal in any state that I know of, nor was it (according to the African American neighborhood watch coordinator) anything outside of their rules at that time.
Two other replies on the same subject:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=163891
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=163954
BTW, why the sudden interest in Zimmerman?
If you don't mind my asking: Is your username derived from the anime Ghost in a Shell?

....And knock it out of the park!!

The media has caused so much pain for THEIR lies, simply for ratings... Look at the recent events in Ferguson MO, that were largely a product of the mass media pushing for ratings. The sad thing is, the people that believe the things they are spoon fed by them on the tv, and get upset and refuse to "reconsider their conclusions" when the truth comes out in court. Worse still is when they take it out on their neighbors.

that he was told not to follow him, but to wait at his vehicle.

I sat in on a murder trial during a high school Civics/Government class back in 1980 in Tennessee that was racially motivated. An ignorant hick about 35 years old had shot a black door to door salesman just because the salesman was walking up to the guys house. You know what his defense was?? "All my life my daddy taught me that those people don't belong around here and if they come on the property to just shoot them". Didn't take long to come back with a guilty verdict for first degree murder. I was born and mostly raised in Miami. We moved to Tn when I was 13, and I moved back to Miami 2 weeks after I graduated in May of '81. I was in Florida City when Hurricane Andrew hit and wiped out everything. That's when I was able to move far away and start over with a new life.


BTW, why the sudden interest in Zimmerman?

It's not a sudden interest, I followed it a little from the start and have read about some of his other scrapes with the law since his first trial. I just never posted on it except for one time, I think, when I said he should be in prison. It might have just been on a poll. Other than that, I haven't had much else to say about it and didn't want to get into the 9000 threads about it.


If you don't mind my asking: Is your username derived from the anime Ghost in a Shell?

No it isn't... I've had others ask if it was the album by The Police, which I had never heard of. I derived it from an old hacker term "there's always a ghost in your machine somewhere", but used Ghost in the Machine instead of "your Machine.

Peace,

Ghost

He was never told to wait in the vehicle. When the operator heard wind on the background, he asked if he were following him. Zimmerman answered yes, then told "we don't need you to do that." Like I said, operators are not allowed to tell anyone to do anything. The operator testified to that fact in court. Here is his complete testimony

when dispatch asked which way he ran, that's when Zimmie started following him. That's when the dispatcher asked if he was following him and Zimmie said yes and he was told "we don't need you to do that". Now that may not had been a legal order, but Zimmie agreed to wait at his truck for the officers, then later changed his mind and told dispatch to just have the officers call hhim when they got there and he would tell them where he was. He decided to hunt Trayvon down. He had also told dispatch that Trayvon was walking towards him and had his hands in his waistband, then said he had something in his hands but couldn't tell what it was. He also said paraphrasing {there's something wrong with him, or he's on drugs or something}.

Original 911 call:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="

any conflicting evidence goes to the defendant. We still have three witnesses and forensics. There is no doubt Martin had Zimmerman in a ground and pound beating his head in on the sidewalk. There is little doubt Zimmerman was the one screaming for help.
No, it is not a legal order. "We don't need you to do that" is not an order as the operator said. There is no evidence Zimmerman wasn't walking back to his car when he was attacked.

to Zimmerman at that moment.

The autopsy and photos and investigation tell us what was going happening at that moment.

That is speaking in FACTS, not fiction.... They have very severe reactions when the facts, and THEIR fiction don't line up.

there was no stalking. There was no order to stay in the car either. Stalking has a specific meaning, and it doesn't cover running to see where someone went after the police operator asked where he went. See my reply to Ghost in the Machine and the provided links.
First aggressor is legally who does something illegal and aggressive. There was no evidence that he did anything illegal in any state. I'm as liberal as the next person, but I refuse to wallow in dogma and blindly repeat what have been proven to be lies.

and "gun stalking" is not a legal concept.

You'd like to see such Gunstalking made legal throughout all 50 states.

I wouldn't.

no matter where it falls. Those facts and truth are based on facts and evidence presented under oath and open to cross examination. In this case, it was prosecution witnesses showed that he was a guy getting his head beat in the sidewalk by a violent individual. I am indifferent to the people involved, including Zimmerman. I support the facts, truth, and the jury system. I also support rational and empirically based thought, something that you as a mathematician should understand. If not, then your students are being cheated.

I detest liars, frauds, racists, con artists, race baiters, ideologues, and demagogues. By not supporting the facts and the truth of the case, those are the people you are supporting. In my reply to GITM, I made my points and why I came to them quite clear. Unless you have something worth replying to, this is my last post on the subject, because I'm pretty sick of it.

unless you are admitting to not supporting rational and empirically based thought.

This is simply unacceptable.

he never said you cheated your students. take a breath and read the post...

sP

nor an ad hominem attack on all mathematicians. It was an observation that some people seem incapable of judging an event based on the actual facts and let their emotions rule their judgment. Framed against the other poster's repeated appeal to authority based on their claim to be a calculus teacher it highlighted the serious contrast between someone who professed to focus on facts and their repeated statements that have been shown to have no basis in facts.

You might look up what that expression means; it in no way describes what the poster said. Highlighting the inconsistency between the self-proclaimed "calculus teacher's" appeal to authority based on their supposed profession and their repeated statements not supported in fact ("gunstalker murderer&quot is in no way an ad hominem attack.

No one has misrepresented an argument by the alleged calculus teacher. The only thing the other poster has done is point out the inconsistency of appealing to authority as a calculus teacher while taking a position that is not supported by facts or evidence.

It's the functional equivalent of someone touting a 120+ IQ as proof of their knowledge about a topic and then making a statement about that topic that is not supported by the facts.

instead of making up absurd terms like "Gunstalking"

Anyone with an open mind who followed the case closely realized that the physical & forensic evidence as well as the testimony of those who had no personal involvement with either Zimmerman or Martin supported Zimmerman OVERWHELMINGLY.

Zimmerman made any number of poor choices that night, but NONE of them were illegal under the laws of the vast majority of states in this country.

in the "culture war" against firearm owners and make lame "appeals to authority" based on a self-reported status as a "calculus" teacher. No fun in that at all.

On the off chance I do, I fully expect an answer that is not based on the laws or the actual case.

He still hasn't explained how he is going to keep firearms out of his classroom if the state he lives in changes the laws to allow the carry of firearms on campus.

There's a simple, direct answer.

I'm not going to put up with that shit.

Why do you have such a problem answering direct questions?

OTOH, aggressive obfuscation is a response all by itself.

Sorry, I was busy being the "worst right wing troll in the Gungeon", (or was it on all of DU?) this weekend, well that and qualifying my concealed carry classes.

Did that GD post also use a "Z" instead of an "S" in all the words, or just a few?

When "those evil gun owners" don't agree with you ... and you can't refute or respond intelligently to their post, just call it a lie, as loud as you can in a friendly or safe haven area and maybe someone will believe "they done you wrong".

You don't get any advancement of your cause of course and you change no minds, but you get some sympathy and a shoulder to cry on.

Funny how getting a lock or post hide just makes them go off the deep end.

No lessons learned from it and they have to try and "get even" as fast as they can.

Kept calling me a liar even after I asked him to stop. Had to block his PMs and notify Skinner. I feel sory for him.

He is not a thief when he leaves without paying his bill either.

and researched self defense laws here, there is no evidence that he violated any law anywhere, and he would have been acquitted or not charged in even most duty to retreat states.

The other groups take from Hoyt.

You beat me to it.
Was just getting ready to post that on this very thread.
It would seem that the OP got under his skin.

so who is celebrating Mr. Hoyt? Care to retract that statement, Mr. Hoyt?

he fails every single time.

Last edited Sun Mar 29, 2015, 09:24 PM - Edit history (1)

to get those falsehoods out. We can at least call them out here.

I don't know enough to say either. However, as I said in #14, not being wrong doesn't lead to being right.

ETA- Re: host corrections, I don't think that's a host's responsibility. If I were the host I wouldn't.

the noose around his neck.
And pull the lever?

Cause it sure sounds like it to me.

Your anseer to any question, yell LIE!

It was just a simple question.

You must have a long list of people you think should be in jail based strictly on your emotions.

and you didn't answer the question you were asked, which is typical.

I'm sure he'll give you a big reward for cluing him in. He can get rid of MIRT too, I bet.

He'll probably make you the official Zampolit for keeping gun trolls off DU and close the Gungeon for you.

He might even erase all your hides, multiple "vacations" and give you a cookie.

Just tell him you're a good friend of Iverglas and Mr. Benchley, that'll impress him.

to me. Skinner basically laughed at him

Hes behaving like a bully cop...

Beating the piss out of a person while screaming extra loud so everyone within miles can hear "STOP RESISTING!!!".

with proof of his false statement. I do not expect any more replies but at least it is in the open for all to see.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=192555

Last edited Sat May 7, 2016, 01:44 PM - Edit history (1)

So I'll ask again: How many other people given a fair trial and found not guilty do you want incarcerated? You must have a long list of people you think should be in jail based strictly on your emotions.

Zimmerman was found not guilty by a jury, and thus is not a murderer. Do you agree that a jury found him not guilty?

Stone

I hope you have a better record at calculus, or your students should sue for malpractice.

I think you can read. Good morning

to be changed, but he was ill-advised to act in the role of LEO, including being armed. He placed himself in a position of being confronted, whereas a good cop would have backed out sooner and called for assistance. I am not averse to both neighborhood watch programs and concealed-carry. But the two together are potentially dangerous when seen as an adjunct to trained police.

and armed with skittles, because we live in a racist nation.

It should be.

Murdering anyone of any race, with or without a hoodie should be and IS illegal.

Though on the books it may be against the law, those whose duty it is to protect the innoncent and prosecute those who murder them act is if it is not.

Our system works on a racist double standard.

There is a double standard.

It is white privaledge at work.