decided she could open fire in a parking lot of a Home Depot in Auburn Hills Michigan to save the corporation from a couple of shoplifters.

I'm sure it was a fantasy of hers. She has been charged with unlawful discharge of a weapon. She'll probably get probation. Hopefully she'll have her concealed carry permit revoked too.

...even though I worked in Grand Rapids for 2 years, I have no idea if Michigan is a state that permits the use of deadly force to halt the commission of a felony. I believe California is.

nt

SYG or duty to retreat is only about defense of self outside of the home. Even then it is the legal requirement to try to retreat if you can do so safely or not. I doubt it is relevant most of the time because most people either try to retreat or simply can't. SYG simply means no duty to retreat. BTW, your neighbors to the north are also SYG, although their definition of reasonable my be different.

Defense of others is either "alter ego" or "reasonable person" standard.
http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/defense-others.html

Last I checked, shoplifting isn't a felony, I don't think a law similar to California's would be relevant, assuming you have one.

another poster was wondering and I answered the question. I at no time implied this woman had any standing to do what she did.

You can get specific training for specific threats. I'm sure you can pay somebody, and they will teach you all about mass shooters and how to stop them. Of course, then you have to be present at a mass shooting, and you have to remember what you were taught, so the odds are not even a million to one.

The fantasy is that we will have 20 or 30 CC present in the average classroom, so the mass shooter will be met by a hail of bullets when he enters the room and yells "Allahu Akhbar!" or whatever

I was wondering if anyone actually knew of someone that practiced this or had heard of training to prepare for this.

I've heard of a slight-of-hand guy who practiced throwing a skeleton key into a keyhole.
I've heard of some martial artist who practiced throwing coins fast enough to drive them into a wooden board.

It's a gun defense curse originated by Massad Ayoob. I know a couple people who took some of the classes. There are a whole series of classes, and you can spend big bucks taking the whole thing. I don't know if there are any mass shooter scenarios in Stress Fire, but I think it's likely. I will look it up.

I looked at a couple gun defense courses, and they don't seem to include training on how to stop a mass shooter. I wonder if states where they authorize classroom instructors to carry weapons will provide specific training.

Carrying concealed has always been a personal choice for self-defense, not some social policy to stop some ActiveShooter© scenario. That on occasion a developing mass murder is stopped does not change this. But like a lot of "arguments" made by the controllers, some contrived rationale is floated into the air so it can be shot down.

The Dalai Lama: "If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." (May 15, 2001, The Seattle Times)...

...otherwise, let the cops do their jobs.

Your words evoked an image of a burning amphibious airplane made of straw, with a miniature shannon watts shouting to bloomberg "Boss, the flame! The flame!

that charges $500 for a two day course on how a civilian should engage an active shooter. It is unclear if they advocate that as the recommended course of action or if it is part of the Run, Hide, Fight advocated by the FBI and DHS.

This appears to be a unique course as I cannot find any other firearms training group that offers a similar course that is not limited to law enforcement.

...one of the examples of 'controller' mindset.

IMHO the whole idea of justice is to have society play a role in seeing to it that the good prosper more than the wicked. The very idea that laws relating to firearms are even referred to as "gun-control" bothers me. I don't see how a law really controls anything.

I see controllers often thinking that having the gun means it will be your first and only choice during a confrontation. They seem to believe that if you won't choose it first, why have it at all. It's the same type of thinking they apply to the law. When they see a problem, they imagine making a law to address it will always be right thing to do. More of the 'when all you have is hammer, everything starts to look like a nail' thinking.

I can see that type of course fitting with the "Fight" part of Run, Hide, Fight but I can't see it as responsible to advocate that out of the order listed.

Hopefully I'll never....no not ever....find myself in a situation where I'll need to use my personal protection device.

However, it's nice living in America were we have a choice of personal protection instead of calling and hoping like so many other countries.

Not one single person I know who legally carries concealed has stated anything other than a desire to safeguard their own rapid exit from a mass shooter scenario.
This fantasy of concealed carriers with a hero complex simply does not exist in my experience.
Not one discussion among my peers has produced a stated desire to move TOWARDS the threat and engage unless there was no other available means of escape.

...I don't carry with the goal of stopping a mass shooter (or terrorist) in mind. I understand that these are astronomically remote probabilities.

I carry for self-defense against assault on my person. That's also unlikely (thankfully)...but is exponentially more likely than the above scenarios.

... at the community college where I work. Nothing to do with "armed citizens" and the like -- just a course in how to save your sorry ass if you should find yourself in the midst of such an incident.

We were taught a list of responses:

• First, run. Try like hell to get out of Dodge and as far away as possible.

• Second, hide. We were given all kinds of practical advice about staying out of sight and out of earshot. (Best tip: Turn off your damn cell phone. You don't want mom/spouse calling while you're huddled in a closet with a killer outside.)

• Third, fight. If all else fails and Death comes through the door, smite him with everything at your disposal: desks, chairs, book-bags, whatever. The irony is that the kindly officer imparting this wisdom had a pistol on his hip. All other things being equal, when and if Holmes/Lanza/Roof comes through the door, I would rather have a Glock in my hand than a sharp pencil or a trashcan. Wouldn't you?

Do those things in that order.

The simple fact is that when shit starts going down, people, including people carrying concealed pistols, don't really know what the hell is going on, where the trouble is, who is causing it, etc. It's much safer to leave the area very quickly if it starts nearby. Especially if your family is with you.

Only if it's happening right by you, or if you're trapped, should you face the unknown with gun in hand.

USMC gunfighting rules:
6: Move away from your attacker. Distance is your friend. (Lateral and diagonal movement are preferred.)
26: Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

other DGU's, so, again, there's no proof that what you claim would actually happen.
And how do you know that no one else was armed in that theater?
The vast majority of CHL holders are level headed citizens who are critical thinkers and take carrying a concealed weapon very seriously and wouldn't willy nilly start shooting in a crowded theater.

That's why we don't live life according to the fantasies we have envisioned.