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SecularMotion

(7,981 posts)
Wed Nov 4, 2015, 06:43 AM Nov 2015

Open carry becomes focus after Colorado Springs shooting rampage

An emergency call placed moments before Saturday's shooting rampage in Colorado Springs has sparked intense debate on how police should respond to armed people in public given Colorado's open carry law.

Naomi Bettis told The Denver Post she called 911 after spotting her neighbor, 33-year-old Noah Harpham, armed with a rifle on the street. She says a dispatcher explained Colorado allows public handling of firearms.

Harpham went on to kill three people.

The open carry law has become a central focus in the tragedy after scores across the country took to social media to question the Colorado Springs police department's apparent lack of immediate response to Bettis' report.

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_29064963/open-carry-becomes-focus-after-colorado-springs-shooting
13 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Open carry becomes focus after Colorado Springs shooting rampage (Original Post) SecularMotion Nov 2015 OP
Active thread in LBN SecularMotion Nov 2015 #1
should we base public policy on one time black swan events? gejohnston Nov 2015 #2
Do you think the police would respond if you called to report a stoned driver? SecularMotion Nov 2015 #3
no. gejohnston Nov 2015 #4
How were the police "prohibited" from responding? SecularMotion Nov 2015 #5
some guy walking with a rifle gejohnston Nov 2015 #6
"Some guy walking with a rifle" will always raise a flag. SecularMotion Nov 2015 #7
I would like to hear it too gejohnston Nov 2015 #9
Every report I found says the 911 dispatch recordings are under investigation SecularMotion Nov 2015 #10
The complete 911 call is at the link SecularMotion Nov 2015 #11
that was the tape from after the first murder Duckhunter935 Nov 2015 #13
Fixed the link above SecularMotion Nov 2015 #12
my policy, if I were in the cop's chain of command, gejohnston Nov 2015 #8

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
2. should we base public policy on one time black swan events?
Wed Nov 4, 2015, 07:45 PM
Nov 2015

and social media from other states meddling in Colorado's business, Colorado should tell them to FOAD. It sounds kind of knee jerk and I doubt any law would make a difference.

Here is a question, if someone in Denver was driving while stoned and plowed in to a homecoming parade killing four or five people and putting thirty more in the hospital, should Colorado go back to banning pot?

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
4. no.
Wed Nov 4, 2015, 07:50 PM
Nov 2015

And they wouldn't respond if I called and said someone was drunk either.
They would show up after the people were already dead. Since he wasn't breaking any laws until he open fired, the cops were prohibited from responding. Now the question of open carry, especially a rifle, in an urban environment would fall under "reasonable regulation" is better question. It seems to be a nonissue in Germany and Switzerland. Of course, you have to carry it unloaded and they use public transport more than we do.
Sometimes laws are not written simply because it would be a solution in search of a problem or simply out of sight out of mind. For example, when Wyoming liberalized CCW, part of the law was made that you could not carry concealed in a city or county council meeting. The law is silent on open carry even though it has always been legal, other than the reservation who have their own laws.
While she wasn't stoned.
http://ethicsalarms.com/2015/10/27/ethics-dunce-the-traverse-city-record-eagle/

 

SecularMotion

(7,981 posts)
5. How were the police "prohibited" from responding?
Wed Nov 4, 2015, 07:55 PM
Nov 2015

If they receive a report of suspicious activity, they may choose to disregard it, but they certainly aren't prohibited from responding.

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
6. some guy walking with a rifle
Wed Nov 4, 2015, 08:00 PM
Nov 2015

is different than some guy looking in car windows like he is casing them. IIRC, there was a court case on the subject. I'll have to find it.

 

SecularMotion

(7,981 posts)
7. "Some guy walking with a rifle" will always raise a flag.
Wed Nov 4, 2015, 08:09 PM
Nov 2015

Many people are alarmed by the sight, unless the person is wearing a uniform or dressed for hunting. They should be alarmed, given the frequency of mass shootings occurring these days.

The 911 call http://dptv.denverpost.com/2015/11/04/raw-audio-from-colorado-springs-rampage-911-call/

Edit: looking, but haven't found the initial 911 call, prior to the shooting

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
9. I would like to hear it too
Wed Nov 4, 2015, 08:23 PM
Nov 2015

While mass shootings are reported more and more politicized, there actually isn't more than before.

In high school we would walk with our rifles on Rifle Club day. Cops would drive past me, of course it was in a case and not openly slung. We put them and the box of ammo on the shelf while we went to class. Of course, if an adult showed up with a gun, our NRA life member principal would lock the shit down and everyone from the local PD to the brand inspector would putting his face in the snow.

Hunting cloths in downtown Denver? Red flag. If Colorado's game law are anything like Wyoming's, the AR isn't likely legal for deer hunting if it is the typical AR round. Correction, the round isn't legal even if it comes out of a bolt action. It simply isn't powerful enough for a mule deer. It could be an AR10 of proper caliber, but still in an urban environment. Even then, it better have a five round magazine if he is hunting. If I saw him in hunting cloths, even the Wyoming required orange, in the sticks with more than a five round mag, I'm calling the game warden.
Again downtown Denver? Chances are, the cops first thought it was some asshole looking for a false arrest payday. Cop baiting.

 

SecularMotion

(7,981 posts)
10. Every report I found says the 911 dispatch recordings are under investigation
Wed Nov 4, 2015, 08:29 PM
Nov 2015

and will not be released. They're probably afraid of a lawsuit and they should be.

As far as "wearing a uniform or dressed for hunting", I was speaking of all cases, not just downtown Colorado Springs or Denver.

 

SecularMotion

(7,981 posts)
11. The complete 911 call is at the link
Fri Nov 6, 2015, 07:43 AM
Nov 2015

Last edited Sat Nov 7, 2015, 11:26 AM - Edit history (1)

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_29071759/colorado-springs-police-release-tape-911-call-warning

The report was suspicious activity while carrying several guns & gas cans. Police should have responded to this report.
 

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)
13. that was the tape from after the first murder
Sat Nov 7, 2015, 12:41 PM
Nov 2015

I thought you would post the original one but I guess not

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
8. my policy, if I were in the cop's chain of command,
Wed Nov 4, 2015, 08:11 PM
Nov 2015

is ask how it is being carried. If it is being carried like the Swiss guy in the Apple Store

VS the low ready like the dumb asses in Texas would be two different responses. Basic threat assessment. Somebody comes into Denny's like these two, I'm looking for the nearest exit and reaching for my phone and pistol and get the fuck out. A report describing these two should be lights and sirens.

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