Gun Control & RKBA
Related: About this forumThe costs and consequences of gun control
Instead of ineffective measures which do much more harm than good, the better approach is laws which can enhance public safety while respecting individual rights. Pretend gun free zones (which are enforced only by signage, rather than by metal detectors) have been proven to be magnets for psychopaths, and they should be repealed. The Cato papers lists some of the instances in which armed persons have thwarted a criminal intent on mass murder.
By far the single most effective step we could take to reduce violent crime would be to greatly increase spending to help the severely mentally ill. The biggest crime reduction would be fewer crimes against the mentally ill, since they are more vulnerable than the general population, and are victimized at a much higher rate. The mass murderers in Tucson and Aurora could have been committed for observation and treatment under existing state laws, with due process protections, but people who knew about the danger failed to take the appropriate steps. More broadly, there are many persons with severe mental illness who voluntarily seek temporary hospitalization, but who are turned away due to insufficient treatment capacity. Greater spending to help the mentally ill today will more than pay for itself in the long run, by reducing criminal justice and incarceration costs. (The mental health issue is addressed in greater detail in my forthcoming article in Howard Law Journal.)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/12/01/the-costs-and-consequences-of-gun-control/
This is an excellent article that I thought you all might enjoy.
patsimp
(915 posts)the cause of mental health
Kang Colby
(1,941 posts)patsimp
(915 posts)DonP
(6,185 posts)Gang fighting? Terror? General criminal activity?
You have no idea what happened yet beyond a shooting, not even how many were killed.
You might want to show some common decency and wait until the blood is cleaned up and they actually know something, before you start with the agenda driven comments.
patsimp
(915 posts)The Gun Loving game is disgusting - have your moments of silence and do nothing. What cowards.
DonP
(6,185 posts)Because all you do is talk and whine while they organize, lobby legislators, attend town halls and pay dues out of their own pocket to support what they believe in. How much of your own money and time have you put into gun control?
No gun control infrastructure to achieve legislative objectives. Weak judicial representation. No real grass roots support
All your gun control eggs are in the basket of a racist 1%er that pays all the bills and has a track record for losing Dem seats in elections.
That's why nobody has to take gun control seriously. You can't get anything done in the courts or in the legislatures.
But let me guess, you're another one that suddenly loves the Bush/Cheney Secret Terrah No Fly Watch list and wants it to be used to stop any firearm purchase? (Even though it has no due process and senior ACLU people and the senior editorial staff from Mother Jones on it.
patsimp
(915 posts)I'm not wasting my time on you.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)I'm disgusted.
On Wed Dec 2, 2015, 10:32 PM an alert was sent on the following post:
and continue your support for terrorists
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=182254
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Disagreeing with someone on policy is not "support for terrorists" In the face of what happened in California today, this is over the top
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Dec 2, 2015, 10:43 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Easy hide.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I hate to hide but it is a thoughtless, nonconstructed response to the very real very sad point that gunhumpers are far more organized and motivated than we are
Next time, offer a counter on how we can organize, dude.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)And as you can see from that and many other examples, they tend to act out...
patsimp
(915 posts)and I did not call anyone here a terrorist
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)patsimp
(915 posts)which says that I called someone a terrorist
but let's not talk about the victims of gun violence, but let's continue to attack people trying to do something about it.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)What have *you* done about gun violence that didn't involve a keyboard and an Internet
connection?
Added on edit, in case that poster self-deletes:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172182219#post7
patsimp
(915 posts)friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)patsimp
(915 posts)discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,578 posts)...that you equate "offended" with "homicidal". :shrug"
Make no mistake, everyone has access to guns and various other means of murder.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)beevul
(12,194 posts)You're on a private website, so amendment 1 does not apply.
Civics 101.
patsimp
(915 posts)the 2nd amendment applies to well regulated militias.
the republican cronies on the supreme court and the nra have argued the opposite.
beevul
(12,194 posts)No. The second amendment applies to government, just like the first amendment does.
Again, civics 101.
patsimp
(915 posts)so private citizens can restrict your gun ownership?
But they CAN decide whats not allowed on their own property, just like Skinner can decide whats not allowed on DU.
You have no business talking about whats going over whos head, until you have wrapped your head around fundamental constitutional function in America.
Start with this: The constitution authorizes and empowers federal government, the bill of rights on the other hand restricts federal government.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)Again, imo, and in further elaboration, this special dispensation allows Full-Time gun postings in two groups and one Forum.
Some may believe that terms of service may be fully corrupted, and rules against attacks and smears applied with systematic discrimination, but you be the judge.
Have you heard any comments in DU GD about Penis© lately? For some, whipping out this metaphor is a favorite, but it's only my considered and respectul opinion.
Response to patsimp (Reply #7)
friendly_iconoclast This message was self-deleted by its author.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)When was the last time (if *ever*) you showed up at a local meeting? Or worked to GOTV?
patsimp
(915 posts)friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)In your own words, what has DonP done to support terrorists?
Making trenchant observations that you don't like doesn't count...
patsimp
(915 posts)hate people much?
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)patsimp
(915 posts)if you believe that gun control will not stop the gun violence, do you have any suggestions that will?
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)patsimp
(915 posts)friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)DonP
(6,185 posts)virginia mountainman
(5,046 posts)Keep calling names like a petulant child. It won't help change the fact that the voters are clearly not wasting time on gun control.
patsimp
(915 posts)RandySF
(70,644 posts)DonP
(6,185 posts)Pretty pathetic excuse for a "movement". Keep using the "Mighty/Evil/Wicked NRA" as an excuse for your failure again and again. You need to just own the fail and move on to something else that might actually work. Or just keep hitting your head on that wall.
(At least violent crime continues to fall, or do you believe the FBI is a shill for the NRA too?)
Heck, you have multiple billionaires backing gun control, sure a few are racist pigs, but still a virtually unlimited checkbook.
According to you 90% of voters agree with you and there are fewer gun owners every year. So, why don't they ever seem to show up at the polls and sweep in all new gun control supporting legislators? NRA slash their car tires on election day?
The major media outlets are big gun control fans too and you still can't get people motivated to even show up at town hall and zoning meetings on new gun shops and shooting ranges in their own towns.
And after all this time there still is no gun control grass roots movement, no dues paying membership, other than a lot of online whining, name calling and and a really disquieting, middle school level obsession with the penii of gun owners.
And you still keep using the same feeble excuse that the "NRA owns congress", even the Dems from purple and blue states too I guess.
Geez, if as many people really supported you as you keep claiming, you'd think in 20 years somebody could have started the ball rolling and repealed concealed carry in at least one blue state, started petitions to repeal the 2nd amendment, something, anything?
Maybe you guys should all switch to something like "activist gardening" instead. At least then you'll have some beans and peppers once in a while. Unless you keep drifting away like you do on gun control, then the garden will die too.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)And no doubt they would still dig up the wrong weed.
Kang Colby
(1,941 posts)discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,578 posts)In my teens in participated in an agricultural learn lab/summer camp. I'm was a city kid but I was into rural stuff and camping as well. I'm not good with plants to this day. At this 'camp' we worked with a partner, two to a plot for the gardening portion. At the beginning my plot had a few vines mixed into 150 square feet of 2 foot high weeds. At the end of the first week our monitor graded my partner and I the best at weeding but we only got 1 out of a possible 4 points for that exercise for that week. I asked why. He answered, "You did well and have no weeds at all. You don't have anything growing either."
Some of the control folks remind me of that experience. The controllers are so focused on removal they target everything, good, bad, doesn't matter. It all has to go.