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sarisataka

(20,992 posts)
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 10:58 AM Apr 2016

UPDATE: Elderly Man Defends Himself in Home Invasion, 1 Person Dead

UPDATE: Elderly Man Defends Himself in Home Invasion, 1 Person Dead

Fairmont police have identified the three people involved in Tuesday morning's deadly home invasion on the 700 block of Gaston Avenue.

Upon arriving at a residence, police said they found a man dressed in black lying in the road with a gunshot wound to his head/neck. He has been identified as Larry Shaver, 28, of Fairmont. Shaver was later pronounced dead at the scene.

They also found another man shot in the lower torso, across the street. He has been identified as John Grossklaus, 28, of Fairmont.

An 80-year-old man living in the residence said Shaver, Grossklaus and a woman attempted to rob him after the woman came to his door, asking to use his phone for an emergency, according to a press release from the Fairmont Police Department. When he let her in, two men dressed in dark clothes entered the home, showed what appeared to be a handgun, and demanded items from the victim.
http://www.wvalways.com/story/31758109/fairmont-police-investigate-shooting

Should the homeowner have taken on the three assailants bare-handed for the good of society?
40 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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UPDATE: Elderly Man Defends Himself in Home Invasion, 1 Person Dead (Original Post) sarisataka Apr 2016 OP
How about for the 'good of him' it's his right. ViseGrip Apr 2016 #1
.that^ 840high Apr 2016 #28
Good for him. With three assailants, TexasMommaWithAHat Apr 2016 #2
per your last question heaven05 Apr 2016 #3
+ 1 DashOneBravo Apr 2016 #4
You're completely missing the point!!1!1! needledriver Apr 2016 #5
You're supposed to be dead by 80 anyway, not very nice of him. ileus Apr 2016 #6
Guns or no, NEVER attack an old man... Eleanors38 Apr 2016 #7
He should have retreated to his panic room constructed of derelict refrigerators. Marengo Apr 2016 #8
I see my post of several weeks ago is still getting to you MillennialDem Apr 2016 #9
How many DGUs? beevul Apr 2016 #10
IDK, but we know threatening people needlessly with a gun MillennialDem Apr 2016 #11
Its not nice... beevul Apr 2016 #12
Because it's not a legitimate reason to have guns if most criminals are scared off by MillennialDem Apr 2016 #13
Says who? beevul Apr 2016 #14
Yes says me. MillennialDem Apr 2016 #15
Color me shocked... beevul Apr 2016 #18
And shooting a criminal in justified self defense is an outlier. MillennialDem Apr 2016 #23
Did someone say it wasn't? beevul Apr 2016 #31
So in your opinion TeddyR Apr 2016 #16
There isn't one, unless you're in the military. MillennialDem Apr 2016 #17
The Second Amendment only applies to the military? TeddyR Apr 2016 #20
Your opposition to self-defense is noted discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2016 #21
No opposition to self defense, just using guns to stick in someone's face who pisses you off becaus MillennialDem Apr 2016 #24
I'm unaware of any self-defense training integrating firearms that... discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2016 #30
And neither is your interlocutor- that is a red herring friendly_iconoclast Apr 2016 #35
"Most gun nuts are compensating" Lizzie Poppet Apr 2016 #32
Ah come on Lizzie! DashOneBravo Apr 2016 #40
If you believe that video isn't staged ... Straw Man Apr 2016 #33
If assertive citizens and derelict refrigerators are sufficient to ward off criminal behavior you Nuclear Unicorn Apr 2016 #37
A fascinating disconnect... sarisataka Apr 2016 #19
Just another online "commando" hoping for a hide DonP Apr 2016 #22
... MillennialDem Apr 2016 #26
Not a chance, you pathetic excuse for an activist DonP Apr 2016 #29
Typical millennial activism DashOneBravo Apr 2016 #34
Calmate, amigo; that sort are getting shriller and nastier as they lose power friendly_iconoclast Apr 2016 #36
No, I'm very consistent. I don't support any study that shows lower DGU than some of MillennialDem Apr 2016 #25
I did say you reject all studies. sarisataka Apr 2016 #27
Please provide a citation to back this statement... Marengo Apr 2016 #39
Absurdity is eternal, and it would be a disservice to anyone debating with you... Marengo Apr 2016 #38

TexasMommaWithAHat

(3,212 posts)
2. Good for him. With three assailants,
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 11:06 AM
Apr 2016

you really do have to shoot to kill or cause such harm as to immobilize the home invaders. An elderly person certainly can't take on three people - even if they're wounded.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
3. per your last question
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 11:51 AM
Apr 2016

Last edited Sat Apr 23, 2016, 10:11 AM - Edit history (1)

no. He defended himself against those who had no right to do what they did. Threaten to rob him while brandishing a deadly weapon. If he had been unarmed, these vicious animals would have more than likely ended this gentlemans life since life is not respected by these types. I would do the same.

 

needledriver

(836 posts)
5. You're completely missing the point!!1!1!
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 12:38 PM
Apr 2016

Because it is possible for Innocent Children™ to gain access to poorly secured firearms, elderly people do not have the right to use firearms to defend themselves because the lives of Innocent Children™ are automatically more valuable than the lives of elderly people because reasons.

 

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)
7. Guns or no, NEVER attack an old man...
Thu Apr 21, 2016, 02:45 PM
Apr 2016

They don't have the strength to fight a younger person. So they are more likely to kill you.

If thenstate has felony murder laws, there is a strong likelihood the survivors will be Warehoused in the Obsolete Surplus Dept.

 

Marengo

(3,477 posts)
8. He should have retreated to his panic room constructed of derelict refrigerators.
Fri Apr 22, 2016, 08:21 AM
Apr 2016

After all, his life isn't as important as some others and his gun puts people entirely unrelated and unknown to him in danger:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=188993

 

MillennialDem

(2,367 posts)
9. I see my post of several weeks ago is still getting to you
Sat Apr 23, 2016, 08:38 AM
Apr 2016

Because you know by the law of large numbers, it's true in the aggregate (but not individual situations of course, every one is different) so you have to straw man that I said it's better in all cases.

And in any case, while this happened, there were 2 fatal accidents by gun, 33 murders by gun, and 67 suicides by gun.

But keep it up, you guys kill yourselves faster than anyone else.

 

beevul

(12,194 posts)
10. How many DGUs?
Sat Apr 23, 2016, 11:27 AM
Apr 2016
And in any case, while this happened, there were 2 fatal accidents by gun, 33 murders by gun, and 67 suicides by gun.


How many DGUs?

But keep it up, you guys kill yourselves faster than anyone else.


Right. Because the misuse of less than .1 percent of all guns, by less than .1 percent of the people that own them, equates to "you guys".
 

MillennialDem

(2,367 posts)
11. IDK, but we know threatening people needlessly with a gun
Sat Apr 23, 2016, 11:49 AM
Apr 2016

counts as a DGU in your opinion.



Now, for serious we don't know how many DGUs there are. There's never been an open, falsifiable study on this, especially one that also controls for instances where the criminal is scared off even in the absence of a gun.

And yes, you guys are causing deaths. And I know most of you have likely had a negligent discharge or at least a close call to one. But it's alright.
 

beevul

(12,194 posts)
12. Its not nice...
Sat Apr 23, 2016, 11:54 AM
Apr 2016
IDK, but we know threatening people needlessly with a gun counts as a DGU in your opinion.


Its not nice to attribute to others, sentiments which they have not expressed, like you just did. Disingenuous much?

Now, for serious we don't know how many DGUs there are. There's never been an open, falsifiable study on this, especially one that also controls for instances where the criminal is scared off even in the absence of a gun.


What does a criminal scared off where there is no gun, have to do with DGUs where there IS a gun?

And yes, you guys are causing deaths.


Who "you guys"?

And I know most of you have likely had a negligent discharge or at least a close call to one.


You are assuming facts not in evidence.

 

MillennialDem

(2,367 posts)
13. Because it's not a legitimate reason to have guns if most criminals are scared off by
Sat Apr 23, 2016, 11:57 AM
Apr 2016

assertive citizens, rather than the fact that assertive citizens have guns.

Another DGU. Most gun nuts are compensating and just want to push people around. Glad the biker was having none of it

 

beevul

(12,194 posts)
14. Says who?
Sat Apr 23, 2016, 12:05 PM
Apr 2016
Because it's not a legitimate reason to have guns if most criminals are scared off by assertive citizens, rather than the fact that assertive citizens have guns.


Says who? You? In America, the only legitimate reason that matters for the law abiding is "because I decided I'm going to have a gun".

That must just burn you up.

Another DGU.


You count that as a DGU?

Most gun nuts are compensating and just want to push people around.


Yet anti-gun bullies are the ones trying to dictate the actions of tens of millions of people, not "gun nuts".

If "push people around" is the metric, the anti-gun bullies have the 'gun nuts' beat hands down, since anti-gunners are about as pushy a bunch as anyone can find.



 

MillennialDem

(2,367 posts)
15. Yes says me.
Sat Apr 23, 2016, 12:10 PM
Apr 2016
You count that as a DGU?


No, but most firearms enthusiasts do.

Yet anti-gun bullies are the ones trying to dictate the actions of tens of millions of people, not "gun nuts".

If "push people around" is the metric, the anti-gun bullies have the 'gun nuts' beat hands down, since anti-gunners are about as pushy a bunch as anyone can find.


Lack of access to a firearm is not pushing someone around. Sticking a gun in their face is. Or secretly fantasizing about wanting to shoot that shitty driver in traffic, the boss who gave you a bad review, or that store clerk who wouldn't give you a refund.
 

beevul

(12,194 posts)
18. Color me shocked...
Sat Apr 23, 2016, 12:28 PM
Apr 2016
Yes says me.


Color me shocked.

No, but most firearms enthusiasts do.


Surrrrre. Sure they do.

Lack of access to a firearm is not pushing someone around.


Trying to take away the access from the current 300+million people that have it is.

Its the textbook definition.

Sticking a gun in their face is.


Get back to me when this becomes the rule, rather than the noteworthy exceptional outlier that everyone here including you knows it that is.

Or secretly fantasizing about wanting to shoot that shitty driver in traffic, the boss who gave you a bad review, or that store clerk who wouldn't give you a refund.


More outliers.

That all you got?

Unoriginal, and unimpressive.

 

TeddyR

(2,493 posts)
16. So in your opinion
Sat Apr 23, 2016, 12:13 PM
Apr 2016

What is a "legitimate reason to have guns"? I mean, other than the fact that the Constitution prohibits the government from infringing on the right to keep and bear arms.

 

TeddyR

(2,493 posts)
20. The Second Amendment only applies to the military?
Sat Apr 23, 2016, 12:39 PM
Apr 2016

There's nothing in the Constitution to support that idea.

 

MillennialDem

(2,367 posts)
24. No opposition to self defense, just using guns to stick in someone's face who pisses you off becaus
Sat Apr 23, 2016, 01:38 PM
Apr 2016

e of their (or your) driving.

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,577 posts)
30. I'm unaware of any self-defense training integrating firearms that...
Sat Apr 23, 2016, 02:51 PM
Apr 2016

...advocate that to which you're opposed. There are already laws against such behavior.

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
32. "Most gun nuts are compensating"
Sat Apr 23, 2016, 10:58 PM
Apr 2016

FFS, are there any more vacuous gun-controller cliche's you'd like to trot out?

DashOneBravo

(2,679 posts)
40. Ah come on Lizzie!
Mon Apr 25, 2016, 08:26 AM
Apr 2016

There has got to be an underlying reason why a female would shoot competition.

You can share with the group, we don't judge.

Straw Man

(6,771 posts)
33. If you believe that video isn't staged ...
Sun Apr 24, 2016, 12:44 AM
Apr 2016

... then I'll need your bank account number and password so I can deposit a check for the $10 million that my uncle in Nigeria left me in his will. You can have 10%. I promise.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
37. If assertive citizens and derelict refrigerators are sufficient to ward off criminal behavior you
Mon Apr 25, 2016, 07:05 AM
Apr 2016

Last edited Mon Apr 25, 2016, 08:20 AM - Edit history (1)

don't need gun control.

sarisataka

(20,992 posts)
19. A fascinating disconnect...
Sat Apr 23, 2016, 12:33 PM
Apr 2016

willing to reject all DGU studies made by credentialed social scientists because the studies do not meet a ridiculous personal standard.

Yet will put out accusations of mass negligence based nothing more than on fantasy and prejudice.

 

DonP

(6,185 posts)
22. Just another online "commando" hoping for a hide
Sat Apr 23, 2016, 01:09 PM
Apr 2016

Another "sincere" and "better than us" gun control "supporter" that gets their facts from bumper stickers and Everytown press releases and doesn't really do anything in the real world in support of their so called "beliefs".

Has been asked several times and always runs away, or changes the subject.

In a week or two the novelty of "teaching those stupid gun nutz a lesson" and patting themselves on the back will wear off and they'll go back to the primary wars.

In the meantime 3 more states are about to go constitutional carry, probably to celebrate the poster's ignorance of facts and their dedication to their "all talk and no action" strategy.

And violent crime will continue to drop.

 

MillennialDem

(2,367 posts)
26. ...
Sat Apr 23, 2016, 01:41 PM
Apr 2016


But please, continue getting depressed and killing yourselves. Happens far more often than you will ever need to point it at someone else.

And this is coming from someone who has struggled with depression. Get help, mental illness is not fun.
 

DonP

(6,185 posts)
29. Not a chance, you pathetic excuse for an activist
Sat Apr 23, 2016, 01:57 PM
Apr 2016

You see the people here that support the 2nd amendment, actually do things to show that support. You don't see them wishing or hoping for gun control people to die horribly. But we hear it from so called "sympathetic and caring" gun control supporters pretty regularly.

On the other hand, all you do is post angry screeds online and whine about it.

That might account for the fact that for over a decade gun control hasn't achieved jack or shit, even with Bloomberg's million$ backing you.

3 more states going constitutional carry this month! Keep up that good gun control work.

 

friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)
36. Calmate, amigo; that sort are getting shriller and nastier as they lose power
Sun Apr 24, 2016, 05:36 PM
Apr 2016

Naturally, they are lashing out...

 

MillennialDem

(2,367 posts)
25. No, I'm very consistent. I don't support any study that shows lower DGU than some of
Sat Apr 23, 2016, 01:39 PM
Apr 2016

the higher ones.

Or any study that uses unfalsifiable data.

sarisataka

(20,992 posts)
27. I did say you reject all studies.
Sat Apr 23, 2016, 01:48 PM
Apr 2016

Yet you assert as fact the neglligent, homicidal and suicidal behavior of gun owners based on no data or study. For those "facts" your bias is all the evidence you need.

 

Marengo

(3,477 posts)
39. Please provide a citation to back this statement...
Mon Apr 25, 2016, 07:49 AM
Apr 2016
"And I know most of you have likely had a negligent discharge or at least a close call to one. But it's alright."

Most? How do you know this?
 

Marengo

(3,477 posts)
38. Absurdity is eternal, and it would be a disservice to anyone debating with you...
Mon Apr 25, 2016, 07:46 AM
Apr 2016

to allow such a prime example of your intelligence to slip into obscurity.

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