Gun Control & RKBA

SecularMotion

(7,981 posts) Wed Apr 27, 2016, 05:54 AM Apr 2016

Who Is Behind the Lie That More Guns Makes Us Safe?

By early June, West Virginians will be able to carry a concealed weapon without a permit, thanks to the state legislature’s successful effort to override Governor Earl Ray Tomblin’s veto of House Bill 4145.

West Virginia is not alone. So-called “permitless carry” is on the wish list of gun-rights groups across the country. A few weeks ago, Idaho Governor Butch Otter signed a bill into law expanding permitless carry in that state. Similar bills have been introduced in more than a dozen other states that would allow citizens to freely carry concealed weapons without permitting or any additional background checks.

There is a bizarre but widespread logic that underpins the push for permitless carry. West Virginia delegate Saira Blair, who wrote the legislation, declared in an op-ed that that “permitless concealed carry bill will enhance safety.” State Senator Charles Trump, a supporter of Blair’s bill, made similar arguments, claiming that “arming of law-abiding West Virginia citizens, without red tape, without enormous expense that deters people from seeking licenses, will make us safer.”

Around the country, other sponsors of similar legislation are singing the same tune. Colorado State Senator Vicki Marbles wrote language into her own permitless carry legislation asserting that “this act is necessary for the immediate preservation of the public peace, health, and safety.”

http://www.thenation.com/article/who-is-behind-the-lie-that-more-guns-makes-us-safe/

6 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Who Is Behind the Lie That More Guns Makes Us Safe? (Original Post) SecularMotion Apr 2016 OP

Short answer? People who sell guns. (Did you know that smoking tobacco cleans your lungs?) DetlefK Apr 2016 #1

WV has had OC forever... ileus Apr 2016 #2

Its all Lott's fault. Or is just Mr. Math? jmg257 Apr 2016 #3

Yeah, it's all Lott's fault regardless of what the gun nuts say. flamin lib Apr 2016 #4

Hah. beevul Apr 2016 #6

Another Lott debunker. Got, he gets a lot of attention.... Eleanors38 Apr 2016 #5

DetlefK

(16,450 posts)

1. Short answer? People who sell guns. (Did you know that smoking tobacco cleans your lungs?)

Reply to SecularMotion (Original post)

Wed Apr 27, 2016, 05:57 AM

Apr 2016

ileus

(15,396 posts)

2. WV has had OC forever...

Reply to SecularMotion (Original post)

Wed Apr 27, 2016, 07:08 AM

Apr 2016

More guns don't make you safe, you only have two hands, and control is optimized when using both.

Guns don't make you safe anyway....they just enhance your chances of defending yourself. There are many elements that have to fall into place for proper defensive gun use.

jmg257

(11,996 posts)

3. Its all Lott's fault. Or is just Mr. Math?

Reply to SecularMotion (Original post)

Wed Apr 27, 2016, 07:44 AM

Apr 2016

Cause these numbers make it look like the more guns sold, the lower the crime rates & gun violence rates?
Per the FBI & USCR & PRC & CDC:

Year NICS check Violent Crimes
2000 8,543,000 1,425,486
2001 8,910,191 1,439,480
2002 8,454,000 1,423,677
2003 8,481,588 1,383,676
2004 8,687,671 1,360,088
2005 8,952,945 1,390,745
2006 10,106,933 1,418,043
2007 11,177,335 1,408,337
2008 12,709,023 1,392,628
2009 14,033,824 1,325,896
2010 14,409,616 1,251,248
2011 16,454,951 1,206,031
2012 19,592,303 1,217,067
2013 21,0932,72 1,199,684
2014 20,968,547 1,197,987

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/10/21/gun-homicides-steady-after-decline-in-90s-suicide-rate-edges-up/ft_15-10-13_gunviolence/

"Between 1993 and 2000, the gun homicide rate dropped by nearly half, from 7.0 homicides to 3.8 homicides per 100,000 people. Since then, the gun homicide rate has remained relatively flat {3.8 to 3.4}. From 2009 to 2014, the most recent year data are available, the number of gun homicides has hovered around 11,000 and 12,000 per year."
The nation’s overall gun death rate has declined 31% since 1993.

Suicides are increasing: "while the gun suicide rate has declined overall since 1993, in recent years it has risen, from 6.3 per 100,000 people in 2010 to 6.7 in 2014."

But overall:
"The nation’s overall gun death rate has declined 31% since 1993"

Huh. Likely something else going on here, no?

flamin lib

(14,559 posts)

4. Yeah, it's all Lott's fault regardless of what the gun nuts say.

Reply to SecularMotion (Original post)

Wed Apr 27, 2016, 09:48 AM

Apr 2016

Lott’s data and honesty have been repeatedly called into question by other academics. In one case, he claimed to have done a survey that found in 98 percent of cases when a weapon is used in self-defense, it was only brandished and not fired. When other academics asked for his data, Lott claimed he lost it as the result of a catastrophic hard drive crash.

Lott conducted the survey again, and of 1,000 respondents only seven people had used a gun in self-defense, six of whom did not fire. This statistically insignificant sample was still good enough for Lott to stand by his conclusion.

When it is pointed out that the increase in guns leads to an increase in gun violence the nutters all say that you can't show causation but throw them some bullshit 'data' and they eat it like pigs eat slop.

A pox on the house of Lott, but only a Small Pox please . . .

beevul

(12,194 posts)

6. Hah.

Reply to flamin lib (Reply #4)

Wed Apr 27, 2016, 02:51 PM

Apr 2016

When it is pointed out that the increase in guns leads to an increase in gun violence, one of usually points out rather inconveniently, that it just isn't so, like post 3 did.

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)

5. Another Lott debunker. Got, he gets a lot of attention....

Reply to SecularMotion (Original post)

Wed Apr 27, 2016, 02:29 PM

Apr 2016

Actually, the only thing worthy of debunking was/IS the long-held belief that "more guns=more crime" preached ad nauseum by DNC-types, MSM, and copious output from the LOTS-O-STUDIES Fnd.

Please note FALLING crime rate even as the number of guns has gone UP.

Reply to this discussion

﻿ Who Is Behind the Lie That More Guns Makes Us Safe?

Who Is Behind the Lie That More Guns Makes Us Safe?