Be prepared to lose everything you own if you should accidentally injure or kill a civilian. This is not Bumfuckistan.

Try something kinder and gentler, like an 870 pump shotgun.

The small bores are too hard to keep clean.

If you want a long range rifle for hunting or target shooting, go with a .30-06 or .308.

As i told my friend when he was looking for a rifle for the "zombie acopalypse" he really isn't likely to get a clear 300 yard shot down the street. so the long range rifle won't do him much good. If you are worried about that scenario go for a 12 gauge or a pistol caliber carbine in .40 or .45.

I don't think people worry about ISIS near as much a societal breakdown and the zombie acopalypse.

(I think I butchered the spelling of "apocalypse".)

Thanks for your service "first shirt".

He's talking about owning a non-automatic civilian AR-15, not an M16 or an M249.

A .223 JHP from an AR-15 is less likely to exit your walls and injure/kill your neighbor than a handgun JHP or a load of 00 buckshot, never mind a shotgun slug.

Civilian small arms drywall penetration test

a fire extinguisher won't kill someone while I'm cleaning it. Not an apt comparison.

Please understand, I am NOT being snarky here, I am genuinely concerned. The fact that your firearms have not hurt anyone so far is no guarantee they won't in the future.

The story you link to is a masterpiece of psyops meant to engender fear, which seems to be working very well.

To quote Frank Herbert, "Fear is the mindkiller". A person in a state of fear is easy to manipulate, which is why the tone of politics has changed so much in the last half century to a never-ending drum-beat of fear.

The greatest threat to your life at this very moment will be getting into your car and driving somewhere. No firearm will protect you from the oblivious moron who blows through a traffic light and t-bones you into the graveyard. You were at greater risk of losing your life stepping out of the shower this morning, than you will ever be from a terrorist assassin.

I had a Quaker minister from Burundi as a guest in my house this past weekend. His country is awash with weapons, and yet people die every day, victims of violence and the plethora of firearms doesn't stop the violence.

not so with a firearm.

You said you would not "live in fear". Cool. Don't live in fear then. The whole point of the threat was to create fear. Don't let them succeed.

there is a lot you can do.

I certainly worry about my wife, who suffers from MS, and has had a few bad falls. So, when we finally paid off our old house, I went looking for one that was a single story, and thus had no steps to climb (Her last fall on the steps in 2013 resulted in a very badly broken wrist requiring extensive surgery and rehab, which was pretty expensive, even with insurance).

I found a nice, somewhat older house that fit the bill, and immediately was advised by relatives to install a monitored burglar alarm and/or buy a gun due to it being set back from the street, and in their opinion, prone to attract thieves.

Looking over the price of alarms, I decided to pass on monitored ADT crap with a call center that the police respond to eventually (usually 30+ minutes, if you are lucky) and instead installed my own sensors and CCTV system for about the same cost as an AR-15.

The system is hooked direct to our cel phones and allows us to monitor the inside and outside of the house when we are away or home. Open any door or window, and we immediately get a text on our phone. Move around inside the house and we get a text on our phone. We can then immediately hook into any camera inside our outside the house, and see what is going on (mostly it is the cat, who despite careful placing and adjusting of sensors, still trips the system from time to time).

If I were to see someone messing around the outside of my house, I would call the police, and as I am a home owner, not a call center, and I am telling the police I am watching intruders as we speak, the response time is less than 5 minutes. I have not yet had to test this, but conversations with some LEOs informs me this is true. 99% of the time a burglar alarm call is a false alarm, so such calls have a low priority. But a call straight from the owner gets an expedited reaction.

Oh, I also have flood lights mounted on the eaves of my house with motion sensors which cut them on after dark. That means it is safer to move around outside after dark and anyone approaching the house after dark trips the lights.

If you have a halfway decent broadband connection, these systems work fine. Not perfectly, but much safer than fire arms, and since you monitor the system yourself via you smartphone, ipad or computer, no monthly fees.

As to other issues, we buy the safest used car we can find, with the latest safety features we can afford. We check in with each other when we are going places and so we can be sure we arrive safe. My sister keeps track of her kids the same way.

I get the HVAC inspected twice a year, have smoke/CO detectors and I can track this on my phone where ever I go. Oh, and the system locks up the house automatically when we leave if we forget to.

Again, all of this for about what it costs for a single AR-15.

I don't look to "fight" back. I just work with existing tech and prudent practices to stay as informed about things as possible.

Scientia est potesta, "Knowledge is power", was my old military school motto.

If you can get devices to work on your home router and you use smart phones regularly, you have about 70% of the know how.

There are lots of things you can do to make yourself safer, actually "feeling" safer is trickier.

A lot depends on where you live, what your resources are, what the real threats are, etc. As you obliquely point out, different actions for different threats. An AR-15 is useless against a tornado, or a falling tree, or loss of power for a week due to an ice storm. Those threats, which are far more likely to occur, and far more likely to affect you, require a different set of actions to prepare for. And again, these precautions are greatly influenced by resources and likelihood of occurrence. Tornadoes happen in my neck of the woods, as do hurricanes and lighting. I Don't worry about earthquakes or blizzards. Heatwaves are a problem, but prolonged extreme cold is not.

You have to do a threat assessment and determine what resources you need and how you can mitigate a danger. Also, what is the mitigation in relation to the cost?

One useful thing I forgot to mention is "know your neighbors". They can have your back when you aren't around and something hinky goes down. Also, my neighbors know that I have prepared for the likely disasters, so they can rely on me to keep the power on when all else is dark and cold.

Until you answer many of the questions above, what you "need to do" is unknowable. Do you have people in your house with a heart condition? Well, a $600 auto-defibrillator might be a better investment than a Glock. A few thousand for a backup generator (NG/LP rather than gasoline) might help your family weather a prolonged power outage that could send other people to a Red Cross shelter.

Again, assess threats objectively. Look at the tools needed to mitigate these threats. Pick the tools likely to give you the best mitigation for your dollar.

Oh, we also have three small dogs. We have a sound sensor in their kennel area. If the dogs go nuts (they have better hearing and smell than humans) then we add a layer of redundancy to our alarm system.

A perfect system? Nope, because sometimes our Boston snores like a chainsaw. But, when I check in, at least I get a laugh and know all is well at home.

If you want to know about any specifics to my system or discuss your situation, please feel free to PM me.

of millions of us are vets who signed up as warriors, and millions more hunters who love the outdoors and hunting game, another warrior activity, and millions more are men and women who see themselves as protectors and the kind of people who intend to fight back against someone trying to kill them which is another element of the warrior mentality, they are hardly the victim types, like those who are afraid of guns.

Fear is counter-productive.

I don't begrudge your purchase, and I was sincere in my comment.

It's just funny how often gun owners will start bragging about their weapons, and anyone who dares to comment negatively is instantly labeled as a coward.

==========

ON EDIT: Those in ISIS most certainly are a bunch of cowards. They will never attack you on equal footing.

In response to my first comment, you said an AR purchase is not a sign of fear, but you said, "I will not live in fear."

You said your OP was to elicit comments, not to announce you are going shopping for an AR, but you most certainly did announce that you are buying one.

Whatever. I'm done here.

I don't own them for self defense - they are stored in one safe with the ammo in another. I couldn't use them to defend myself if I wanted to.

Low recoil, accurate and quite modular.

You can stick with the 5.56/223 upper, then buy a couple of extra uppers depending on what you like to do.

Hunt, Home Defense, Plinking....made for all sizes of shooters so everyone in the family can have fun.


It's really is the "gun for the people"

Other than shooting about 1-1.5" low it's pretty darned good.

I am all for guns, but these kind of posts are hilarious.

It's just a few pieces put together to throw a projectile further. To be honest, you'd be safer with heavy security doors and windows than an ar 15. But at least you can take the AR out target practicing.

The imagination people have...an army flag making them a target.

Just because they don't do that thing, my parents live on a farm, doesn't mean they wouldn't be safer that way.

I'm all for guns, just not the fearmongering fantasies that people are somehow in such high risk of being attacked...especially in the rural areas.

I think almost everybody should own at least an 870.

Benelli makes the pump action Nova. It only allows 3 or 4 shells.

It's a nice weapon.

I do have several M97's.
Including a WW2 era with a 16" bayonet.

Sincerely.

...is a great platform. It's infinitely customizable, reliable, light, accurate. You might consider, if you are handy with basic tools, going the 80% lower route. No serial, no registration, no record of sale and 100% legal for those not prohibited to own and possess firearms.

I was not a fan as I have two bolt action rifles that I hunt with. Both were handed down from my father.

When they came out with the flattop I ended up getting one. I don't have anything on it except for a scope. It's perfect for my daughter who can't shoot my .243.

I'm not worried about ISIS and keep the rifles locked up. Have a turkey gun and a pistol for self defense.

"I'm thinking they targeted New York because of the strict gun control"??

The article.

Read the article.

http://www.aol.com/article/2016/05/02/isis-hackers-just-posted-a-hit-list-of-3-000-new-yorkers-and/21368705/

So if New Yorkers all had cc permits, they would have shot the hijackers from the ground? Or out the windows of the towers? Unbelievable.

The article.

Read the article.

http://www.aol.com/article/2016/05/02/isis-hackers-just-posted-a-hit-list-of-3-000-new-yorkers-and/21368705/

Seriously?

I read it earlier.

I've been involved on the State level.

Who knows?

But I have succumbed to the spelling monster.

What, you live in Syria?

That will look weird.
If ISIS attacks here, and IF they come to your specific house, which would also be really weird, why would they? They will be suicide attacks, and they will recruit people that do not look middle eastern. They will look and dress and talk like people you know. They may act like people in distress or who've had an accident and need help, in order to get close enough.

In the end, you can't be prepared for everything all the time. It's just impossible. And what kind of person wants to live a mistrustful, suspicious life of not helping others because we're too afraid of them?
Live and take chances, and help people. That's how you get back at terrorists. By not being terrorized.

And stay at your house all the time I guess, with your other doomsday preparations.
You know you are still going to die. We all are.

into your false dilemma.
Oh wait, I'm not.

you ARE living in fear...

all those unarmed people that don't have a problem sleeping at night? They're not living in fear... you, thinking bringing a weapon into your house will make you safer, even though statistically it raises your chances of someone in your house being injured, are living in fear and making things worse.

My children (when they were children) needed me to make them feel safe.

My wife needs me to make her feel safe.

My pit bulls need me to make them feel safe. (go figure)

My neighbors - some of whom are elderly and/or unwell, appreciate my presence because I make them feel safe.

If I cannot make them safe (not just feel safe) then I am a fraud.

Then they've already lost to ISIS, whose goal is to make people fear them.

And look if someone steals your guns then what, everyone you know goes back to shivering in fear in a locked room waiting for jihadis to strike?

You and those around you sound very cowardly.

I know endless people - including my own children - and elderly people that don't fear ISIS and don't need a gun or a neighbor with a gun to feel safe.

In fact most of the world - including Europeans that have to actually - you know - potentially deal with ISIS - feels plenty safe without guns.

Only a certain type of American is so paranoid that that can't feel safe without someone they know owning an AR15. It's laughable. And sad.

I am not scared of any of that stuff... Neither is my family.

You honestly sound paranoid.

You don't need a gun to feel safe. Neither does your family. In fact guns in your house make your family a lot less safe.

You're doing the opposite of what you're trying to do and you're doing it out of fear. And if you've instilled this fear into your kids no wonder they are scared.

And yeah I still think you and your family are cowards. Only a coward needs a gun to feel safe.

I grew up surrounded by guns and the ONLY people I ever saw that had trouble with guns were people with guns.

I live in Ireland now. Here not even the cops carry guns. No one is scared to go anywhere. The same goes for anywhere I've been in Europe. People don't need guns to feel safe.

If you do thats on you, and has nothing to do with the reality of keeping anyone safe.

The people you care about know that you cannot predict everything and make everything perfectly safe. Accidents and sickness and sadness and loss strike even the most well-prepared. If being armed and prepared made people safe, no soldier would ever die. But they do. We make each other strong enough to face the things that happen, but we can't make each other safe. No one has ever been able to do that.

Beautifully written.

However, service members have something to fear, but control that fear through teamwork and unit cohesion.

Soldier friendships are very close friendships.

As a society, it is almost as if these petty arguments - for example, the ones swirling around us on DU - are encouraged and 'baited' if you will, to keep people bickering just enough so that they cannot find common ground in anything.

Someone posted a very lighthearted post in GD just saying hello, and hoping (jokingly) not to be banned for doing so.

I commented (again, jokingly - sort of) that being on DU has made me confirm moving to an sparsely populated area was a good idea.

Have we been encouraged to distrust?

To see something and say something?

Can we be on a war footing forever?

And most of the people in the world are not on war footing, even when their countries are at war. That's why most people in foreign countries have favorable views of the U.S. people, and an unfavorable view of the U.S. political leaders. We all know that governments do things very often that do not reflect the values of the people.

I've had people argue with me, even when they agreed with me on this site. This is a site where people like to argue!

is obviously living in fear and unaware of the truly miniscule odds of being attacked by a non-state terrorist. I say non-state terrorist to distinguish from the much greater state terror committed by the US, Russia, Israel, France, Saudi Arabia, China, etc.

Simplistic, illogical and pandering to NRA motivated fear.

Do you live in a cement bunker, with a HEPA closed air supply to guard against aerosolized attack?

Do you ride around in an armored vehicle?

Do you wear body armor?

Do you have someone walking behind you to guard against attack?

Do you stay away from cities because of the threat of a sniper attack?

Since 2001, there have been 45 fatalities due to non-domestic terrorism in the US. But in that same period, there have been over 450,000 deaths due to firearms.

There are threats, and there are statistically credible threats. Every time that my wife and I walk, and that is nearly every day, there is the possibility that we will be struck by lightning. But we still walk.

By the way, my .58 caliber antique rifle can put a bullet right through a wall. Not to even speak about a shotgun loaded with sabot rounds. So where is the real safety?

Politically, we have been trending towards electing 'tough guys' especially since 9/11. In my community, the main criticism of Obama the candidate was that he was not former military. Not enough of a 'tough guy.'

Allowing the NSA to compile our phone calls, militarizing police departments, civilians carrying handguns with more bullets in them than cops used to carry in three dump pouches.

Is the political landscape one of purposely induced fear?

Do politicians want it that way?

Is there a security-law-enforcement-industrial complex, to update Eisenhower's warning?

Fueled by paranoia?

Have you noticed that no one has suggested anything for people to do other than be fearful and vote for tough-on-whatever candidates?

Is 'buying a gun' an outlet, because people do not know what else to do?

from scary narratives. Spending more money on military, police and defense, is a super easy, no-thought required way to look like a hero, so politicians like that.

We have been at war for thirteen years and we're still more likely die from a household accident than a terrorist attack. What other country can say that after 13 years at war? We're super fucking blessed and safe, probably more than we deserve. The best way to stop terrorist attacks is to stop being at war.

I know I'm more likely to die from a diet and lifestyle related disease than a terrorist attack, and still, like an asshole, I ate birthday cake for lunch.
That's living. I live dangerously. I didn't even have a handgun, a dagger, mêlée weapon, or nothing. Armed only with a cake knife.

How do we inform people that except for a very few very inner city areas, Americans are the safest people in human history?

How do we get our government to slow down the up-armoring?

To stop shooting unarmed people?

To stop training law enforcement in an us-against them mindset?

I find it interesting that many responses here just questioned the need, and possibly the sanity.

Alternate mindsets? Pursuits that contribute to societal well-being?

I have been involved in a number of major events to hit the Northeast in the past 30 or so years.

Some people responded, some stayed home. The responders came out mentally healthier, IMO.

Doing nothing is learned helplessness. How do we resist that?

A weapon of mass (as in body mas index) destruction.

George W. Bush and Dick Cheney were presented by the media as tough guys even though neither was active and Cheney applied for and was granted 5 exemptions.

My feeling is that fear allows politicians to take away freedom under the guise of "protecting the public". But the supposed problem, fear of a terrorist attack, is akin to fearing a lightning strike. There is more likelihood of being struck by a train than being the victim of a terror attack.

Again, great questions and the last should probably be the subject of a post.

Good idea. The more controversial, the better.

I don't worry about being struck by a meteor, either...

I do take far more likely events into consideration (ordinary criminal assault, attempted rape, etc.), but terrorism? Nah...

It doesn't make a lot of sense to me from a risk management standpoint, as an individual, to plan a defense against "terrorism".

Learning how to use a handgun or shotgun defensively has self defense merits no doubt about it. I view firearms as personal safety devices that also double as range fun. The AR I put into the category of range fun. Having said that, people who live in remote areas along the Mexican border or other places may well find defensive utility in the AR platform. There are probably other good civilian examples all involving some degree of SHTF...riots, large scale attacks, etc.

Not to bust your bubble, but if you live in NYS, the AR-15 options all look silly with that ridiculous stock as a result of the recent law.

What I am looking for is a pro-active approach.

By posting this, I am trying to elicit a response such as...

'Don't buy a gun, or don't only buy a gun, you can also.....'

What, what can people also do????

One of the reasons people feel threatened is because as a society, we are not encouraged to do anything real, proactive, to get involved somehow.

Even FEMA encourages you, basically, to go to Walmart and buy a ton of crap you will never need.

Cans of this, bottles of that, 72 hours worth of band-aids and batteries.

As a society, we acknowledge a threat, but give no psychological outlet for the fear it creates.

How do we involve ourselves in real work that will enable us to say that we are better than the fear?

Buy a gun if you want a gun.
Mostly turn off the TV. And look around you, do you really feel like you're in danger? Has anyone ever threatened you, actually?
My 84 year old neighbor runs around all day, she stays out late with the neighbors, laughing it up. And we live in one of the supposedly worst areas of western Pennsylvania. She's not scared. She doesn't have a gun. Little kids have to go to school every day, walking to the bus stop. They aren't scared. You can at least be as brave as a little old lady and some school children, probably.

Like when I tell my kids I'm not scared, and it makes me feel braver and bigger.
We just have to keep reinforcing it to each other and to our leadership, that we're not scared, we're brave and happy people.

People have been telling me to vote, so that's what I do. I'll let you know if it ever works.

I resist that notion entirely.

You seem to like the more traditional style...wood stock models available
Less issues in NY.

Plenty reliable, decent accuracy.



ETA http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2016/3/22/five-reasons-to-reconsider-the-ruger-mini-14/

and lubricate the heck out of it, particularly the bolt nub where the op rod cams it open. Especially if it's a stainless Mini.

I owned a 188-series Ranch Rifle, and it was an accuracy lemon, but reliable. It didn't like to run dry, though (galling on the bolt nub).

At home, I keep at .357 revolver at-the-ready. If some sort of insurrection breaks out (unlikely), I have in addition a hoary old Winchester 30/30. The rest of my arms are shotguns and a well set up deer rifle.

All this fol de rol about "Fear®" as if it were some moral/political transgression, or a sign of character degeneration. Fear is a healthy early-warning system; humans have it for a well-rounded set of survival emotions, like love, elation, and anger. It's part of our make-up. It never ceases to amaze me how some emotions are deemed "better" than others when they all serve a useful purpose.

Home insurance makes good sense, but having a secured firearm for defense against break-ins is not? One is evidence of sober planning, the other a sign of "living in fear©?" Heavens, folks, who has NOT lived at least for a time "in fear?"

Two of the past 3 nights have been marked by heavy rains, high winds and close lightening. Feel a little Living in Fear© coming on? I slept through it: I was properly prepared with an old ice chest right below the biggest roof leak. It's a .48 caliber... er, quart. That'll show Thor, Vulcan, and Neptune!

My poor understanding of psychology describes anxiety as being afraid or uneasy in the absence of any discernible threat. Paranoia acknowledges a discernible threat, but is a reaction all out of proportion to that threat. Most of the expressions around here are too confused to make sense of. Psychology is unfortunately a field wherein its terminologies are used more for social opprobrium than constructive therapeutic use.

and kill innocent bystanders.

Oh, and invest in lessons as to how to use it. Don't want to shoot yourself in the balls, y'know.

Never understood why the US went to those cute Berettas, etc. Probably somebody got a good contract out of the change.

I buy them just cause I want one.

Don't need no obscure out of date terrorist threat as an excuse.

Is post count that important that you have to say stuff you don't mean?

I feel free to take it as such.

..but you do not get over a hundred posts and 1500 views in 12 hours by posting something non-controversial.

People want controversy, they want to discuss, they want to learn.

I'm a teacher, I enjoy debate, debate is healthy.