Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
Wed May 4, 2016, 08:54 PM May 2016

guns in churches, mosques, synagogues, Druid oak groves etc

If as liberals, we support the separation of Church and State when people like Pat Roberson opens his mouth. Doesn't it stand to that we should also oppose the State telling churches that they can't allow guns? It seems to me that Jefferson's wall is brick on both sides. While I see a reasonable argument for a compelling State interest in banning them from bars, or any other business where recreational drugs are consumed on the premises, I don't see it when it comes to churches.

19 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
 

Press Virginia

(2,329 posts)
2. I thought churches were private property
Wed May 4, 2016, 08:58 PM
May 2016

unlike bars, which have to be licensed by the state to serve alcohol, I would think the Church would have the say on whether they permitted CCW or not

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
5. I don't know about Oklahoma, where the change was vetoed
Wed May 4, 2016, 09:02 PM
May 2016

In Wyoming, it is a crime without written permission from the church PTB. I think the State should only be involved to enforce trespass law if the cleric chooses, but the default should be the Church's policy and State not care.

 

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)
16. In Texas, you post one or both signs "banning" arms in a business or (I presume) a....
Thu May 5, 2016, 02:08 PM
May 2016

place of worship. One bans concealed-carry, one bans open-carry. The restaurant I am in now has them, another has neither sign, yet another is improperly posted.
Doesn't matter to me. Gvernment regulation in this instance is rather inconseqential. If I am not mistaken, all the school shootings in this country were committed in "gun-free" facilities. In fact, I oppose regulations which advertise that fact.

benEzra

(12,148 posts)
17. Some states, including Georgia, treat churches differently from other, similar private buildings.
Thu May 5, 2016, 06:19 PM
May 2016

A meeting hall can allow or deny guns at the discretion of its members, owner, bylaws, whatever, but in Georgia, churches are Special Places Under God and are therefore not subject to the same rules as regular buildings.

I believe there is indeed a 1st Amendment issue when the state designates special religious rules for churches vs. other voluntary private assemblies, because such rules fail to treat them equally under the law.

Most states (including most blue states) allow church carry on the same basis as carry in any other private building, e.g. allowed if the building owner/organization allows it and prohibited if they do not allow it, and do not make "religious vs. secular" distinctions.

 

SecularMotion

(7,981 posts)
4. Why stop there?
Wed May 4, 2016, 08:59 PM
May 2016

They should also allow liquor and strippers in churches, mosques, synagogues, Druid oak groves etc

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
8. somehow I don't picture the local cleric keeping his job
Wed May 4, 2016, 09:07 PM
May 2016

if they allowed strippers. Then again, the mass pearl clutching would be fun to watch. Both are allowed by law, or at least the same rules apply to the local Lions Club or VFW. I'm not saying the cleric has to allow anything in his church, all I'm saying is that the government doesn't have any business telling him he can or can't.

Straw Man

(6,771 posts)
10. Why indeed?
Wed May 4, 2016, 09:47 PM
May 2016
They should also allow liquor and strippers in churches, mosques, synagogues, Druid oak groves etc

Who are "they"? The government? Should the government be able to tell churches what they can and can't have on their premises?
 

theatre goon

(87 posts)
11. I know a stripper that goes to church every Sunday.
Thu May 5, 2016, 06:15 AM
May 2016

Why shouldn't she be allowed to attend just like everyone else?

Your bigotry is showing...

 

beevul

(12,194 posts)
14. Yes, the naked human body...
Thu May 5, 2016, 01:12 PM
May 2016
strippers


Yes, the naked human body is just terrible.

I reckon you'd be happier if it was covered up huh, burkas for all?

It is interesting to me, that you decided to let us know that naked humans are as repulsive to you as guns.

It reveals a lot about you.

benEzra

(12,148 posts)
18. If the Assembly of the Flying Spaghetti Monster decides that
Thu May 5, 2016, 06:50 PM
May 2016

members may bring wine or beer into *their* building for socials, and the state tells them they can't because $DEITY disapproves of alcohol, we have a First Amendment problem. If Moose Lodge or VFW members can decide to allow alcohol socials in *their* buildings, then so can Pastafarians, Lutherans, Jews, or Unitarians. Or atheists. The state has no business making a distinction, IMO. The same goes for your suggestion of mandatory dress codes; enforcing Baptist dress codes on pagans would be a 1stA violation. Baptists can set their rules, and Druids/Wiccans/Unitarians/whoever can set theirs.

ManiacJoe

(10,136 posts)
19. I have never understood the reasoning behind the ban on CCW in church.
Sat May 7, 2016, 05:48 PM
May 2016

That said, the few states I have lived in, none had such a ban.

Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Gun Control & RKBA»guns in churches, mosques...