Gun Control & RKBA

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts) Wed May 11, 2016, 06:42 AM May 2016

What's to stop someone from lying about having retreated?

Supposedly, one of the arguments against Stand Your Ground (SYG) laws is that it allows a shooter to claim -- presumably falsely -- they felt threatened and thus acted in self-defense.

The survivor gets to tell whatever story they desire, the argument goes, while dead men tell no tales. Thus, the thinking goes, we must abolish SYG laws in favor of Duty to Retreat (DTR) laws.

Leave aside for the moment the fact that witnesses and physical evidence are still a factor but consider that a person who would lie about having stood their ground would be just as motivated to lie about having retreated.

Apart from eroding the right to self-defense itself I don't see the purpose of abolishing SYG.

9 replies

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What's to stop someone from lying about having retreated? (Original Post) Nuclear Unicorn May 2016 OP

Excellent post. CompanyFirstSergeant May 2016 #1

Be careful about making blanket statements about what is legal Lurks Often May 2016 #2

OK, here you go... CompanyFirstSergeant May 2016 #5

The same mechanism gets cops off for shooting unarmed suspects, lie and stick to the lie no... marble falls May 2016 #3

Yet, gun control is dedication to the proposition that only the police should be armed. Nuclear Unicorn May 2016 #4

Not in my mind. Keeping the criminal or mentally disturbed from gun ownership will not lead to ... marble falls May 2016 #6

If only... beevul May 2016 #7

They focus on the law-abiding because it is culture war... Eleanors38 May 2016 #8

Gun control would mett with far more success if it confined its efforts to only criminals and Nuclear Unicorn May 2016 #9

CompanyFirstSergeant

(1,558 posts)

1. Excellent post.

Reply to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)

Wed May 11, 2016, 07:10 AM

May 2016

Good question.

- Surveillance video, witness statements, forensic evidence. But you did not want that.

So.... (see disclaimer below, I am not a lawyer)

- In one's own residence or 'the curtilage thereof' (just outside the house) one does not have to retreat.

- Make noise, say things like - "put that gun away" or "why do you have a gun." Develop witnesses that way.

- Go back to your own property such as your vehicle. Keys out, try to drive away.

- Move back, go back the way you came in. Be able to say "He pulled a weapon HERE, I moved back to over HERE." Distance.

- Move back, have the aggressor move forward, perhaps entry wounds will tell that story if you do shoot.

- I all else fails, hope the bad guy is wanted by the law for a bunch of nasty stuff.

What's to stop someone from lying? Nothing. Why do you think police unions demand time (up to several days) before an officer can be 'interviewed' about a shooting?

Lurks Often

(5,455 posts)

2. Be careful about making blanket statements about what is legal

Reply to CompanyFirstSergeant (Reply #1)

Wed May 11, 2016, 08:09 AM

May 2016

State law varies and what might be in legal in Texas is NOT always going to be legal in New Jersey.

People should always consult with a lawyer that specializes in criminal defense and if possible one that knows the state laws governing use of force.

CompanyFirstSergeant

(1,558 posts)

5. OK, here you go...

Reply to Lurks Often (Reply #2)

Wed May 11, 2016, 09:27 AM

May 2016

The above post is not legal advice, do not try this at home, I am not a lawyer, smoking causes body odor, I am not a lawyer, etc. etc.

It is just for entertainment and conversation purposes while I sit at my computer and delay doing more important things.

The 'duty to retreat' I am generally speaking of is based on law in New York.

Thanks for the reminder that we are a disclaimer-driven society.

marble falls

(61,996 posts)

3. The same mechanism gets cops off for shooting unarmed suspects, lie and stick to the lie no...

Reply to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)

Wed May 11, 2016, 08:20 AM

May 2016

Last edited Wed May 11, 2016, 10:09 AM - Edit history (1)

matter what.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)

4. Yet, gun control is dedication to the proposition that only the police should be armed.

Reply to marble falls (Reply #3)

Wed May 11, 2016, 08:35 AM

May 2016

marble falls

(61,996 posts)

6. Not in my mind. Keeping the criminal or mentally disturbed from gun ownership will not lead to ...

Reply to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #4)

Wed May 11, 2016, 10:09 AM

May 2016

cops only being armed.

beevul

(12,194 posts)

7. If only...

Reply to marble falls (Reply #6)

Wed May 11, 2016, 11:33 AM

May 2016

If only you could get the gun banning types to buy into that...

They tend to focus on the law abiding rather than the criminal or mentally disturbed.

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)

8. They focus on the law-abiding because it is culture war...

Reply to beevul (Reply #7)

Wed May 11, 2016, 11:41 AM

May 2016

in which everyday citizens with guns are held in lower esteem than the semi-literate, spitte-flying criminal.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)

9. Gun control would mett with far more success if it confined its efforts to only criminals and

Reply to marble falls (Reply #6)

Wed May 11, 2016, 04:23 PM

May 2016

the mentally ill that are a danger to themselves and others. Sadly, all of the current proposals do nothing but infringe upon the rights of the innocent.

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