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SecularMotion

(7,981 posts)
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 05:40 AM Jun 2016

What's 'good cause' to carry a concealed gun?

In California, where gun-control laws are among the country's most restrictive, local concealed-carry ordinances have survived a major challenge in a case that could make its way to the Supreme Court, potentially becoming one of the first major gun cases heard by the high court since District of Columbia v. Heller in 2008.

The 9th US Circuit Court of Appeals ruled 7 to 4 on Thursday that municipal authorities can oblige gun owners to obtain a permit in order to carry concealed weapons. In the majority opinion, Judge William Fletcher wrote that the Second Amendment "does not preserve or protect a right of a member of the general public to carry concealed firearms in public."

The case saw gun owners in San Diego and Yolo counties, backed by the California National Rifle and Pistol Association, contesting denials of their applications for concealed-carry permits, which require the applicant to demonstrate "good cause" for their weapons, beyond general self-defense. The plaintiffs sought to have the requirement struck down as unconstitutional.

In a 2010 affidavit filed by the manager of the sheriff's licensing office in San Diego, the office said the application of the lead plaintiff had been denied because he had not provided documentation proving that he had "good cause," perhaps the most difficult of California's permit requirements. Applicants must also complete a training course and be "of good moral character."

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2016/0610/What-s-good-cause-to-carry-a-concealed-gun
29 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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What's 'good cause' to carry a concealed gun? (Original Post) SecularMotion Jun 2016 OP
It is not necessary to present a 'good cause' to exercise a right GreydeeThos Jun 2016 #1
Would you point out any right safeinOhio Jun 2016 #3
re: "Would you point out any right that is absolute." discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2016 #6
You're using specific restrictions and those duly convited of felonies to argue in favor of Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2016 #8
You confuse "good cause" and "(no)absolute rights." Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #15
I don't think so. safeinOhio Jun 2016 #17
there was only one challenge to the NFA gejohnston Jun 2016 #18
Even that would be shaky to uphold sarisataka Jun 2016 #19
Actually, the '35 Act may indeed be unconstitutional as an infringement, but few have objected Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #21
The Swiz have access safeinOhio Jun 2016 #22
No problem. That's why I limited my remarks to use and possession of full-auto. Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #23
here's a "good cause"... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2016 #2
I agree. JonathanRackham Jun 2016 #4
I saw that. Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #16
Exercising a right.. Puha Ekapi Jun 2016 #5
Do you have "good cause" to post this thread? Oh, I know you're simply excersizing your 1a right, jonno99 Jun 2016 #7
i agree beergood Jun 2016 #20
Good cause laws TeddyR Jun 2016 #9
Like the local Sheriff that turned down MLK Jr's application to carry? DonP Jun 2016 #10
A frequent "good cause" as written into the applications is ManiacJoe Jun 2016 #11
BTW, it's good to know that CSM... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2016 #12
My being, and my family...the only 4 causes I need. ileus Jun 2016 #13
In CA, "good cause" is being a close personal friend of the Sheriff, benEzra Jun 2016 #14
Having CW Permit makes transporting a gun in a vehicle easier Kaleva Jun 2016 #24
With the third ISIS attack in the US, gejohnston Jun 2016 #25
Other people with concealed guns Jester Messiah Jun 2016 #26
A good cause Wayburn Jun 2016 #27
Being the recipient of numerous death threats? bluestateguy Jun 2016 #28
Mine was because I wanted to own a handgun (or 2). jmg257 Jun 2016 #29

safeinOhio

(34,075 posts)
3. Would you point out any right
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 07:57 AM
Jun 2016

that is absolute. That being no exception. Are the Bundys correct that the 2nd means they have the right to have guns while in jail? The law restricting full autos, registration and high fees along with background checks, etc has been well established since the late 1930s.

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,577 posts)
6. re: "Would you point out any right that is absolute."
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 09:44 AM
Jun 2016

Sure; all of them. Everyone has an absolute right to exercise every one of his rights. They also have the responsibility to remain accountable for their actions to their fellow men and women and to not, by their direct actions, harm another. Using the law in an attempt to 'control' behavior, which you or some folks or even maybe everyone on the planet, find repugnant is like trying to hold back a tide around a little sand castle on the beach. The best we can hope for is to hold criminal aggressors responsible for their actions. Humans are not more powerful than nature and always affect the best outcome when working in concert with it. Self-defense is a natural right and natural instinct.

Gun-control is an exercise by which the uninvolved work against enabling potential criminals. It's a moral purity thing.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
8. You're using specific restrictions and those duly convited of felonies to argue in favor of
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 11:45 AM
Jun 2016

a general, blanket prohibition.

 

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)
15. You confuse "good cause" and "(no)absolute rights."
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 04:27 PM
Jun 2016

One does have nearly an absolute right short of proven criminality, age, adjudicated mental incompetence. The government has the obligation to keep records of these duly-processed disqualifications, and present them (in the case of gun purchase) at the time of transaction. "Good cause" beyond this state obligation is an oft-used abusive way for local authorities to deny rights, esp. with regards equal protection of the law.

safeinOhio

(34,075 posts)
17. I don't think so.
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 04:43 PM
Jun 2016

If we look at the National Firearms Act that puts many more restriction on one type of firearm and that law has stood for a long time in the courts and as law of the land. I don't see any court applying the rights you think the 2nd do to those autos, buying and owning. The same restrictions could be applied to hand guns and semi-autos and still, by that law, be constitutional.

There is a middle ground on the 2nd. Both sides, for and against, firearms on the extremes argue for extremes.

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
18. there was only one challenge to the NFA
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 05:43 PM
Jun 2016

and if you read Miller, you will find that SBSs are not protected, but full autos might be. SBSs aren't protected only because there was no evidence presented that SBSs had a military use.

sarisataka

(21,000 posts)
19. Even that would be shaky to uphold
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 05:57 PM
Jun 2016

If for some reason it was taken back to the Supreme Court.

Had there been anyone countering the government you points they would easily have shown the Miller court that short barreled shotguns were in use during World War 1

 

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)
21. Actually, the '35 Act may indeed be unconstitutional as an infringement, but few have objected
Mon Jun 13, 2016, 02:17 PM
Jun 2016

To the law, enough to make a fuss about it. So, it seems it hasn't been challenged so as to put the country in line with, say, Switzerland where citizen militia is required to keep a full auto in the home. (In that way, citizens in the U.S. would have access to "well-regulated" arms; that is, arms suitable for infantry in the modern era.) The restrictions you mention are a burden on average American citizens (taxes, "may issue," 4th Amendment restrictions, registrations, etc.), but of course will not restrict the criminal, thug and terrorist.

safeinOhio

(34,075 posts)
22. The Swiz have access
Mon Jun 13, 2016, 04:16 PM
Jun 2016

But must be locked up, only taken out of the home to train with and that training is mandatory. Concealed is only allowed with a reason for it. All gun are registered. Even bullets. Your full auto would not be yours and can not be transferred etc etc. I'd be more than happy to change to the Swiz laws and happy to see you use them as an example.

 

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)
23. No problem. That's why I limited my remarks to use and possession of full-auto.
Mon Jun 13, 2016, 04:21 PM
Jun 2016

The rest of the laws in the U.S. would apply for all other weapons. The Swiz full-auto restrictions you mention are certainly less restrictive than those in the U.S.

jonno99

(2,620 posts)
7. Do you have "good cause" to post this thread? Oh, I know you're simply excersizing your 1a right,
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 10:29 AM
Jun 2016

but it seems to me that you post way more than you need to, and certainly you're not posting anything new here.

I propose therefore that for posters like you we create a "posting watchdog" to monitor your posts for "content necessity" and/or redundancy, and to act as a gate-keeper to prevent unneeded posts (do you REALLY need to post more that 1x per day?). Furthermore, I propose to setup a committee to ensure that the "watchdog" acts according to the posting guidelines defined by the committee. In time I foresee a national database created to track - state to state - individual "high risk" posters to ensure that they are following the posting rules - regardless of the state.

Grudgingly, to make sure that our 1a rights are not infringed and to ensure that an even playing field is maintained, we'll allow for the creation a grievance committee - we'll call it the NPA (National Posting Association).

Now the NPA won't be popular with everyone; there will be many who claim that the NPA simply advocate for bullies who want to post "rough-shod" over their fellow citizens - posting redundant, unneeded posts, and worse, posting offensive (challenging!) material inside "No-posting" (safe) zones.

It's unnecessary - even ridiculous you say? Well, show us "good cause" for any of your future posts, and we'll submit them to the committee for approval (unless you're one of those crazy NPA members - you know, the ones who declare "you can have my keyboard when you pry it from my cold dead fingers"...).

 

TeddyR

(2,493 posts)
9. Good cause laws
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 03:02 PM
Jun 2016

subject a constitutional right to the whims of local law enforcement. Does anyone think that local law enforcement should have control over who gets to vote? What if the local LE is racist and determines hat only whites get to concealed carry? Would that be ok?

 

DonP

(6,185 posts)
10. Like the local Sheriff that turned down MLK Jr's application to carry?
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 03:25 PM
Jun 2016

Yeah, leaving it up to local law enforcement is a great campaign donation machine.

By an incredible coincidence it turns out that the people that get permits are almost always those that "support" the sheriff in the elections.

In Chicago Tom Dart (Cook County) was really bummed out that we went Shall Issue. Saw all those "donations" flying right out the window.

Coincidentally also where a number of his prisoners in Cook County jail have gone as well. Out the window, down the street and long gone.

ManiacJoe

(10,136 posts)
11. A frequent "good cause" as written into the applications is
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 03:38 PM
Jun 2016

"to comply with the law" since a CCW license/permit is required in most places to carry concealed.

Fortunately, most states don't have such foolishness as a requirement of the permitting process.

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,577 posts)
12. BTW, it's good to know that CSM...
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 06:40 PM
Jun 2016

...like so many other media outlets, can't get the basics right.

"California National Rifle and Pistol Association" google that.

ileus

(15,396 posts)
13. My being, and my family...the only 4 causes I need.
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 09:47 PM
Jun 2016

Period...end of discussion. I will not accept anything less than being able to defend myself and family.

benEzra

(12,148 posts)
14. In CA, "good cause" is being a close personal friend of the Sheriff,
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 11:35 PM
Jun 2016

or making a large donation to the local CLEO's re-election campaign.

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
25. With the third ISIS attack in the US,
Mon Jun 13, 2016, 08:57 PM
Jun 2016

simply being gay is good cause. One of my daughter's friends, who is like family to us, would have been there if it were not for a broken radiator hose.

 

Jester Messiah

(4,711 posts)
26. Other people with concealed guns
Mon Jun 13, 2016, 09:11 PM
Jun 2016

...who probably didn't go through the requisite checks that law-abiding people otherwise have to.

 

Wayburn

(24 posts)
27. A good cause
Mon Jun 13, 2016, 09:32 PM
Jun 2016

A good cause to carry a concealed firearm would be a shooting in a nightclub filled with innocent Americans.

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