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DonP

(6,185 posts)
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 10:18 AM Jul 2016

"Police: 1 dead after Palos homeowner shoots intruders" (Chicago Suburb)

"One man is dead and another injured after being shot by a Palos Township homeowner when they attempted to enter the home Tuesday night, police said.

"The victim of an attempted home invasion, who had a valid conceal carry license, shot two male intruders fatally killing one and wounding the other," Janet De La Torre, a Cook County Sheriff's Department spokeswoman, said in a statement.

The incident occurred about 11 p.m. in the area of Will-Cook Road and 118th Street in Palos Township. The neighborhood is largely wooded with upscale brick and stone homes.

Four people are in custody, De La Torre said, none of whom are the homeowner. No charges have been filed, she said."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/daily-southtown/news/ct-sta-homeowner-shoots-intruder-st-0707-20160706-story.html

Another of those events that "never happens" and you're paranoid if you think it does.

The Concealed Carry permit is really irrelevant to this event, since he was in his home. But it indicates the homeowner has had at least 16 hours of training, qualified at the range and obviously practices with his chosen weapon. The surviving criminal gave up the other that were 2 waiting outside and took off when they shooting started.

30 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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"Police: 1 dead after Palos homeowner shoots intruders" (Chicago Suburb) (Original Post) DonP Jul 2016 OP
Yay! Proves the NRA is right SCantiGOP Jul 2016 #1
Can't discern the difference between criminals and lawful self defense huh? DonP Jul 2016 #3
While there are others rock Jul 2016 #5
Really? SCantiGOP Jul 2016 #6
Why do you own a handgun, sarisataka Jul 2016 #9
No kids in the house SCantiGOP Jul 2016 #12
I was more asking sarisataka Jul 2016 #13
"I assume you know the fact that an accidental death is much more likely" LOL! DonP Jul 2016 #10
"Rare?" So the CDC is wrong? Eleanors38 Jul 2016 #15
Weren't you the one claiming the founders intended people to possess only hunting rifles? Marengo Jul 2016 #16
Link to article on CDC study tortoise1956 Jul 2016 #20
Actually confirms what the CDC has been saying: Many thousands of SDs a year. Eleanors38 Jul 2016 #14
What about the "If it saves just one life" claim? ileus Jul 2016 #18
There are tens of thousands of defensive gun uses every year TeddyR Jul 2016 #2
Tens of thousands? SCantiGOP Jul 2016 #4
Well, the CDC said from 500,000 to 1.5 million defensive gun uses a year DonP Jul 2016 #8
Here is my final response SCantiGOP Jul 2016 #22
it isn't an "NRA talking point" gejohnston Jul 2016 #25
The official platform of the Democratic Party TeddyR Jul 2016 #27
Correct, but... SCantiGOP Jul 2016 #29
As others have pointed out TeddyR Jul 2016 #11
Even the anti-gun VPC acknowledges those numbers. beevul Jul 2016 #17
Exaggeration? Straw Man Jul 2016 #19
Are you going to admit you were wrong Duckhunter935 Jul 2016 #21
Please see my apology, post #22 above SCantiGOP Jul 2016 #23
Nice double down insult Duckhunter935 Jul 2016 #24
The lowball estimate is 50,000 needledriver Jul 2016 #7
intruders enid602 Jul 2016 #26
I doubt it Travis_0004 Jul 2016 #28
All 4 survivors have been arrested, 3 women and the wounded guy. DonP Jul 2016 #30

SCantiGOP

(14,239 posts)
1. Yay! Proves the NRA is right
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 11:43 AM
Jul 2016

And balances out the thousands who are massacred every year by guns, or kill/get killed every year by guns in the house.

 

DonP

(6,185 posts)
3. Can't discern the difference between criminals and lawful self defense huh?
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 12:27 PM
Jul 2016

Must be a real challenge to tell the difference between a person with their family in their home, minding their own business and the drug gangs responsible for over 95% of the murders here.

Hmmm, that may be why nobody pays attention to calls for more gun control?

Keep up the good work with that piercing insight.

rock

(13,218 posts)
5. While there are others
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 12:31 PM
Jul 2016

That just don't get the point and rapidly start discussing something else. Eh?

SCantiGOP

(14,239 posts)
6. Really?
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 12:35 PM
Jul 2016

You didn't grasp that I was pointing out that every time some whacko kills dozens of people with a weapon that shouldn't be in the hands of a civilian, the gun lovers trot out these rare, random cases of someone using a gun for self-defense?

I actually own a handgun, and do not know anyone that advocates taking away the right to own a handgun or hunting rifle.

Final point: I assume you know the fact that an accidental death is much more likely to result from a gun being in the household than for that gun to be used for self-defense.

Keep cranking out the NRA talking points and "sarcasm" symbols, I have no interest in debating this point, especially since somewhere around 80% of the American public agrees with my position. Good bye.

sarisataka

(21,000 posts)
13. I was more asking
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 01:50 PM
Jul 2016

The purpose of owning your handgun. Is it for self-defense, you enjoy recreational shooting, it's family heirloom, 'it's always been there and I've never thought to get rid of it'...

 

DonP

(6,185 posts)
10. "I assume you know the fact that an accidental death is much more likely" LOL!
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 12:59 PM
Jul 2016

Only if you are still clinging to the 30 year old Kellerman study that has been debunked at least 4 times by his peers.

Which number should we use, the original 43 times more likely, the 1st revision to 12 times more likely, or the last one where it was 6 time more likely? Gun control can't even keep its lies, excuse me, I mean research straight.

Hell, even Kellerman admitted many of his conclusions were inaccurate.

"Run away, run away, and call them NRA talking points", somebody showed up with facts.

Feh, no wonder gun control is such a loser. Thanks for all you work.

tortoise1956

(671 posts)
20. Link to article on CDC study
Fri Jul 8, 2016, 12:58 AM
Jul 2016

where it states that there are at least as many DGU's as violent crimes...

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/human_nature/2013/06/handguns_suicides_mass_shootings_deaths_and_self_defense_findings_from_a.html

I threw this in here so that you could see for yourself what the CDC found in its review of other studies.

 

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)
14. Actually confirms what the CDC has been saying: Many thousands of SDs a year.
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 01:55 PM
Jul 2016


You know, THAT CDC.

ileus

(15,396 posts)
18. What about the "If it saves just one life" claim?
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 06:21 PM
Jul 2016


As for me and my family we'll choose self defense.
 

DonP

(6,185 posts)
8. Well, the CDC said from 500,000 to 1.5 million defensive gun uses a year
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 12:39 PM
Jul 2016

You know, the CDC that isn't supposed to do any research on firearms?

The same one that completed a study in 2013 at the direction of the White House. That CDC?

They found that defensive uses outnumber crimes by at least 20 to 1.

But why actually bother to look anything up when you have your Bloomberg financed bumper stickers to rely on for your POV.

SCantiGOP

(14,239 posts)
22. Here is my final response
Fri Jul 8, 2016, 02:39 PM
Jul 2016

Last night I trashed this forum and put several of the posters here on Ignore because the discussion was not rooted in reality. In a discussion thread in the normal part of DU there was a question of why there is even a RKBA forum in DU. I will re-post this as my final acknowledgment of this forum since I won't be seeing any of its activities from now on:
_______________________________________________________________________________

I have wondered the same thing. They are so out of step with the rest of our group here, and out of step with the Democratic Party, I don't understand how they get a forum here.
They post talking points from the NRA, like having an armed citizenry is the best way to stop the 'bad guys' with guns. Five minutes before CNN broke in with news of the ambush of the police officers last night they were showing the police presence in the area. If hundreds of armed, trained police couldn't prevent this, how can a couple of citizens carrying guns be effective?
I trashed the RKBA forum and most of the people I was in a discussion with there because they kept throwing out ridiculous stats, one of which that there are up to 1,500,000 cases of year of "defensive gun uses," and then they will post 2-3 stories where that has happened.
My state of SC is about average size for the 50 states in population, so that works out to more than 80 cases a day in South Carolina! Their answer to this absurd disconnect from logic is that the press doesn't publicize these stories - I guess because SC is such an anti-gun, liberal state? What utter crap.

I'm sure some of them are sincere (they just think the 2nd Amendment is the only one that is really important and "threatened) but I also am convinced some of them are paid or dedicated volunteers for the NRA.

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
25. it isn't an "NRA talking point"
Fri Jul 8, 2016, 05:41 PM
Jul 2016

the number is based several peer reviewed criminology studies. The fact that you don't like the number or it doesn't fit your favorite narrative doesn't make it untrue or ridiculous. It is accepted mainstream criminology. The best known study on it won the Michael J. Hindelang Award from the American Society of Criminology.
https://www.amazon.com/Point-Blank-Guns-Violence-America/dp/020230762X

CNN broke in with news of the ambush of the police officers last night they were showing the police presence in the area. If hundreds of armed, trained police couldn't prevent this, how can a couple of citizens carrying guns be effective
Prevent is different than mitigate. Also, cops are really that highly trained. What it does show is that someone with a rifle shooting from an elevated position has a greater advantage over someone with only handguns on the ground and has nothing to do other situations.
 

TeddyR

(2,493 posts)
27. The official platform of the Democratic Party
Fri Jul 8, 2016, 07:13 PM
Jul 2016

And the position of President Obama and candidate Hillary is that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to keep and bear arms, which is really the point of this group, although that right is subject to restrictions like any other. I couldn't find any recent stats but it seems like something between 1 in 4 or 1 in 5 of Dems own firearms - http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/07/15/the-demographics-and-politics-of-gun-owning-households/. So this group is in line with the opinion of tens of millions of Democrats. So not sure why you think this group is "out of step" with the Democratic Party.

SCantiGOP

(14,239 posts)
29. Correct, but...
Fri Jul 8, 2016, 08:03 PM
Jul 2016

When a supposed Democrat on a Democratic site revels in pointing out that a man who has just been executed by a policeman was a felon, as if that excused the act, I question whether that person is a Democrat or an NRA troll. You won't have to look far to find that in the RKBA forum.
Also in RKBA there are posts where ridiculous statements are thrown out, one in particular was that there are as many as 1.5 MILLION cases per year of someone using a fun for defensive purposes to thwart an attack. That worked out to 80 incidents per day in my state (SC). Since the rare occasions this does happen are blaring front page news, how dishonest is the gun advocate(s) who promotes this kind of delusion, and uses it as a counter-balancing 'excuse' for the fact that innocent people are being slaughtered because of our gun culture.
The Democratic position does not support assault rifles, high volume magazines, armor piercing bullets, etc., which are all sacred to the NRA and have many supporters in RKBA.

 

TeddyR

(2,493 posts)
11. As others have pointed out
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 12:59 PM
Jul 2016

Yes, the instances of defensive gun use are at a minimum in the tens of thousands. Do you have some facts that dispute that point?

Straw Man

(6,771 posts)
19. Exaggeration?
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 10:07 PM
Jul 2016
Tens of thousands?

Exaggerate much?

From the VPC's own analysis of the Bureau of Justice Statistics’ National Crime Victimization Survey:

As detailed in the chart on the next page, for the five-year period 2007 through 2011, the NCVS estimates that there were 29,618,300 victims of attempted or completed violent crime. During this same five-year period, only 235,700 of the self-protective behaviors involved a firearm.

--http://www.vpc.org/studies/justifiable.pdf

235,700 over a five-year period is an average of 47,140 per year. Sounds like tens of thousands to me.
 

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)
24. Nice double down insult
Fri Jul 8, 2016, 02:59 PM
Jul 2016

I am indeed impressed.there is another gun related group you might enjoy, but it is not very busy.

 

needledriver

(836 posts)
7. The lowball estimate is 50,000
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 12:35 PM
Jul 2016

Defensive Gun Uses per year.

Nobody needs to get shot for a defensive gun use to be effective, yet that still means that up to 50,000 lives a year are SAVED by people who were able to exercise the choice whether to arm themselves.

People who would prevent you from even having the choice to arm yourself cite the 15,000 or so who are murdered by firearms every year as a reason, yet ignore the 50,000 people whose live are saved. That's over a three to one ratio of lived saved to lives lost!

enid602

(9,045 posts)
26. intruders
Fri Jul 8, 2016, 06:38 PM
Jul 2016

The ones that got away will probably return to pick off the homeowner when he goes out in the morning to pick up his newspaper.

 

Travis_0004

(5,417 posts)
28. I doubt it
Fri Jul 8, 2016, 07:34 PM
Jul 2016

People generally want easy targets and will go find somebody else to rob. If the homeowner did end up getting shot later on, those people would be the first ones the cops look into.

 

DonP

(6,185 posts)
30. All 4 survivors have been arrested, 3 women and the wounded guy.
Fri Jul 8, 2016, 08:43 PM
Jul 2016

Being held on $1 million bail each with charges of Felony Murder for all of them.

They're going nowhere.

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