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HAB911

(9,362 posts)
Mon Jan 9, 2017, 03:27 PM Jan 2017

Bills to end training and licensing requirements for concealed carry

and to allow guns on college campuses loom as pivotal fights for 2017.

The number of Republican lawmakers serving in capitals across America sits at the highest level in nearly a century. The gun rights advocates among them head into 2017 eager to make this year a momentous one in their crusade to dismantle state firearms restrictions.

“This is our historic moment to go on offense,” Wayne LaPierre, the National Rifle Association’s executive vice president, told his members in a post-election video.

Already, two contentious proposals are underway. The first would eliminate licensing and training requirements governing who is authorized to carry concealed handguns. The so-called permitless-carry measures are poised to take on extra importance as a federal bill requiring all states to honor each other’s concealed-carry laws gains steam in Congress. Under that legislation, states that mandate permits for carrying hidden handguns would be forced to allow visitors from states that no longer require such licenses to carry concealed guns.

The second push would allow guns onto more college campuses, which gun advocates have targeted for years in their campaign to make firearms commonplace in places where deadly weapons have long been barred.

https://www.thetrace.org/2017/01/state-republicans-pro-gun-bills-concealed-carry-campus-carry/

32 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Bills to end training and licensing requirements for concealed carry (Original Post) HAB911 Jan 2017 OP
Wayne LaPierre tells the truth for once. guillaumeb Jan 2017 #1
It was hilarious HAB911 Jan 2017 #3
Unfortunately there are many paranoid gun owners who buy this nonsense. guillaumeb Jan 2017 #4
WE NEED MORE GUNS Angry Dragon Jan 2017 #2
Concealed carry without training or licensing? Paladin Jan 2017 #5
I agree with the importance of training sarisataka Jan 2017 #18
I don't need "loaded" phrases like "practicing to murder" to express myself. Paladin Jan 2017 #20
I disagree with the push for Constitutional carry. SQUEE Jan 2017 #6
I fully support these measures. Kang Colby Jan 2017 #7
Because Americans are too stupid, maybe? HAB911 Jan 2017 #8
Americans aren't that stupid gejohnston Jan 2017 #10
You are talking about the technical aspects only HAB911 Jan 2017 #11
You have no idea what you are talking about gejohnston Jan 2017 #12
You have no idea what you are talking about HAB911 Jan 2017 #14
I don't hire myself out to be anyone's body guard gejohnston Jan 2017 #15
then you should not want to walk around HAB911 Jan 2017 #16
If you ever watched the movies, gejohnston Jan 2017 #17
Just read this and stop dancing HAB911 Jan 2017 #24
an op ed by two advocates. gejohnston Jan 2017 #28
Irrelevent ad-hominem argument HAB911 Jan 2017 #30
it wasn't ad hominem gejohnston Jan 2017 #32
Are we verging on the Diggler Rule? Eleanors38 Jan 2017 #22
How would you reply sarisataka Jan 2017 #19
You're "stupid Americans" are responsible for lower homicide & childhood gun-accident rates... Eleanors38 Jan 2017 #21
Sorry, I disagree HAB911 Jan 2017 #23
Ah! Diggler's Rule is now in effect. Carry on... Eleanors38 Jan 2017 #25
Post removed Post removed Jan 2017 #31
stupid, barrel stroker... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2017 #27
I'm for a national CCW DashOneBravo Jan 2017 #9
This, for sure. yagotme Jan 2017 #13
A car in every garage and a gun in every holster....or....pocket.. pangaia Jan 2017 #26
Sounds good hack89 Jan 2017 #29

guillaumeb

(42,649 posts)
1. Wayne LaPierre tells the truth for once.
Mon Jan 9, 2017, 03:34 PM
Jan 2017

When he talked about going on offense. What he did not say was that the American people are the ones that the NRA is going on the offense against.

LaPierre is a pathetic tool for the weapons manufacturers posing as a human.

HAB911

(9,362 posts)
3. It was hilarious
Mon Jan 9, 2017, 03:42 PM
Jan 2017

I got a robocall from the NRA last week. some guy comes on and asks me to listen to a quick message, LaPierre (french sounding) comes on and tells me how Obama is going to take all our guns away, so the NRA needs some money to fight him. seriously. when the guy comes back on after the LaPierre recording to squeeze me for money, I just tell him he's a paranoid idiot and hung up. geeeeeze

guillaumeb

(42,649 posts)
4. Unfortunately there are many paranoid gun owners who buy this nonsense.
Mon Jan 9, 2017, 03:53 PM
Jan 2017

And the weapons industry profits immensely from the fear.

Paladin

(28,778 posts)
5. Concealed carry without training or licensing?
Mon Jan 9, 2017, 05:57 PM
Jan 2017

Fuck that shit. And fuck any of you Gun Enthusiasts who back such provisions---particularly after the oh-so-solemn advice you've been dishing out lately to new gun owners: be really, really, really careful with your new guns, and get lots and lots and lots and lots of practice with the friendly guys down at the range.......

sarisataka

(21,007 posts)
18. I agree with the importance of training
Tue Jan 10, 2017, 04:22 PM
Jan 2017

and would no more prefer an untrained gun carrier to an untrained aircraft pilot.

I would ask a favor of you. When gun control advocates speak of training and target shooting as 'practicing to murder' will you speak as vehemently to them about the value of training?

Paladin

(28,778 posts)
20. I don't need "loaded" phrases like "practicing to murder" to express myself.
Tue Jan 10, 2017, 06:16 PM
Jan 2017

Your comparison of an untrained gun carrier an untrained aircraft pilot is a sound one.

SQUEE

(1,320 posts)
6. I disagree with the push for Constitutional carry.
Mon Jan 9, 2017, 06:30 PM
Jan 2017

I am an advocate for MORE training and I want the states to help more people get more training.
Courses through Community Colleges, on dual use LEO and civilian training centers, all for a very nominal fee.

There are a lot of new DEMOCRAT gun owners popping up, I want them to be safe and trained to use these new Constitutional rights they have discovered.

 

Kang Colby

(1,941 posts)
7. I fully support these measures.
Mon Jan 9, 2017, 07:00 PM
Jan 2017

The only permit you should need is the 2nd Amendment.

Not sure why anyone would think gun owners should ask permission prior to bearing arms.

Thanks

HAB911

(9,362 posts)
8. Because Americans are too stupid, maybe?
Tue Jan 10, 2017, 07:37 AM
Jan 2017

Like any of us should trust anyone with with a gun with or without training? LMAO.

Look at the idiot Americans just elected for proof


TOO FUNNY

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
10. Americans aren't that stupid
Tue Jan 10, 2017, 01:05 PM
Jan 2017

at least most of them aren't. Safely operating a firearm doesn't require that much training. Read the owners manual watch a couple of You Tube videos on basic marksmanship and safety is more than enough. Besides, most people learn as kids.
Not saying that formal training is a bad idea or a waste, just saying that self-learning is under rated. A lot of instructors opposed Arizona's "constitutional carry" for fear of losing business. Their business actually increased.

HAB911

(9,362 posts)
11. You are talking about the technical aspects only
Tue Jan 10, 2017, 01:29 PM
Jan 2017

stressful situations and what to do in response is not a weekend warrior endeavor

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
12. You have no idea what you are talking about
Tue Jan 10, 2017, 01:55 PM
Jan 2017

Either someone is trying to, or give the reasonable belief of, immediately inflict death or grave bodily injury or they are not. Flight or fight response kicks in. it is instinct with humans as it is with any other animal. There is a shop near me that offers a VR version of "shoot or don't". It is a good thing to do, far more than cops do. I do once in awhile to support a local business.
Cops aren't really that well trained.

HAB911

(9,362 posts)
14. You have no idea what you are talking about
Tue Jan 10, 2017, 02:04 PM
Jan 2017

I wouldn't put my life in your hands under any circumstances

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
15. I don't hire myself out to be anyone's body guard
Tue Jan 10, 2017, 02:10 PM
Jan 2017

It isn't my job to protect you, just like it isn't the cops' job either.

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
17. If you ever watched the movies,
Tue Jan 10, 2017, 04:08 PM
Jan 2017

Rambo used a compound bow or a big assed knife. The only guns he used was some machine gun he found.

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
28. an op ed by two advocates.
Thu Jan 12, 2017, 05:37 PM
Jan 2017

Get back to me when you find someone who is objective and who knows what they are talking about. Is Gabor's work peer reviewed? Has he had anything published in criminology journals?

Given the large number of defensive gun uses by non LE each year, their conclusions are absurd. Also, most PDs don't have the level of training they support, certainly not NYPD.

I wasn't dancing, I was being straight up. There are numerous examples of armed citizens performing as I claim, and opposite as you claim.

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
32. it wasn't ad hominem
Fri Jan 13, 2017, 09:42 AM
Jan 2017

their argument was not based on any verifiable facts. The Secretary General of INTERPOL at the time came to the opposite conclusion after the Westgate Mall terrorist attack. His was based on verifiable facts.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/05/17/good-guys-with-guns-former-interpol-chief-ron-noble-on-the-westgate-mall-mass-shooting/?utm_term=.7fd27eb4b19e

Encouraging citizens to carry is now Czech Republic policy

Your cartoon was an ad hominem

sarisataka

(21,007 posts)
19. How would you reply
Tue Jan 10, 2017, 04:24 PM
Jan 2017

to those gun control advocates who view training on firearms as practicing murder?

 

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)
21. You're "stupid Americans" are responsible for lower homicide & childhood gun-accident rates...
Thu Jan 12, 2017, 03:34 PM
Jan 2017

but that is obvious.

I too support training to-carry in the public, but so far, there is no big upswing in gun-homicides, OR accidental gun-accidents for kids below 15 yoa. This suggests that millions of intelligent people are getting training and taking safety measures to bring down these rate.

I would point out that the model for "Constitutional Carry" is that hotbed of RW thought: Vermont.

HAB911

(9,362 posts)
23. Sorry, I disagree
Thu Jan 12, 2017, 03:45 PM
Jan 2017

American are stupid, too stupid to walk around with a gun.

I don't want or need any stupid barrel stroker that thinks he knows how to use a gun in a stressful situation ATTEMPTING to defend me ever.

http://www.tampabay.com/opinion/columns/column-florida-should-not-loosen-gun-laws/2309109

 

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)
25. Ah! Diggler's Rule is now in effect. Carry on...
Thu Jan 12, 2017, 04:21 PM
Jan 2017

Of course you realize carrying arms in the situations dealt with here is for self-defense, not social policy. I don't envision a policy of widespread carrying of arms for the purpose of effecting social policy (reducing crime, for exp.), but perhaps in the future a credible study may show crime reduction based on public-carry. I will wait and see.

Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #25)

DashOneBravo

(2,679 posts)
9. I'm for a national CCW
Tue Jan 10, 2017, 11:20 AM
Jan 2017

I think training should be required and you should have to do more than just hit the target.

I also think law enforcement officers should have a lot more marksmanship classes.

yagotme

(3,819 posts)
13. This, for sure.
Tue Jan 10, 2017, 02:02 PM
Jan 2017

"I also think law enforcement officers should have a lot more marksmanship classes."

Have shot alongside a few cops who could shoot;

and a boatload that couldn't.

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