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The Hearing Protection Act is back with new support (Trump jr) (Original Post) Blue_Warrior Jan 2017 OP
Sensible K&R discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2017 #1
Do you describe yourself as A Liberal? TIA........n/t HAB911 Jan 2017 #4
I'm complicated discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2017 #6
there are different definitions of liberal gejohnston Jan 2017 #9
There seem to be a lot of Libertarians that claim to be Liberals HAB911 Jan 2017 #10
your definition is wrong gejohnston Jan 2017 #11
Ever hear of a dictionary? HAB911 Jan 2017 #12
at least you cited it, gejohnston Jan 2017 #13
Hello discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2017 #16
Seems to be an old, tired tactic. Some DUers just aren't that liberal/left.... Eleanors38 Jan 2017 #29
Kind of goes along with the old tired tactic of... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2017 #30
Hey, who doesnt need or want a silencer for their hand cannon. You never know when you'll need one. CentralMass Jan 2017 #2
"Suppressor" Is the correct description. oneshooter Jan 2017 #8
trump jr. doing you gun enthusiasts favors these days? Paladin Jan 2017 #3
So the party that wants the government to regulate products for safe use... krispos42 Jan 2017 #5
Some of us are only interested in "safety measures"... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2017 #7
And those 'us' are obvious to all but themselves... friendly_iconoclast Jan 2017 #17
You lot do love the associational fallacy, don't you? Not that it actually works for you... friendly_iconoclast Jan 2017 #18
Culture war directed at the GOP isn't good enough for this one. pablo_marmol Jan 2017 #23
Gun prohibitionists demand that we all die politically with them on their particular hill friendly_iconoclast Jan 2017 #24
Oh HELL yes! NT pablo_marmol Jan 2017 #32
Well... derby378 Jan 2017 #14
It's interesting how differently we view silencers compared to Finland Blue_Warrior Jan 2017 #15
The problem with this, yagotme Jan 2017 #19
they are that expensive melm00se Jan 2017 #25
In Africa you can buy them legally for as little as $50 HoneyBadger Jan 2017 #26
I wish they would drop the requirements here, yagotme Jan 2017 #31
Excellent piece of legislation. Kang Colby Jan 2017 #20
Would it come into effect immediately? Blue_Warrior Jan 2017 #21
Not sure, it will probably have an effective date a few months after passage. n/t Kang Colby Jan 2017 #22
Agreed. J_William_Ryan Jan 2017 #27
Well, folks wanted the U.S. to follow Europe's lead... Eleanors38 Jan 2017 #28
Well, follow Europe's lead... yagotme Jan 2017 #33

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,579 posts)
6. I'm complicated
Sun Jan 15, 2017, 11:19 AM
Jan 2017

I don't see myself as monolithic. My pro-RKBA stance is not closely embraced by the Democratic Party but the right involved is acknowledged. There are aspects of the party platform which I would change.

I am pro-liberty and freedom and see the most valuable role for government to be ensuring the rights of individuals are respected.

I am quite "liberal" on many issues and less so on others.

For example, I did not like the medical coverage available 10 years ago, I'm not thrilled with the ACA but it's better, I favor government medical for all.

I like the idea of making BGCs available to private individuals who want to sell their guns.

A question for you: What's you position on the OP topic of removing suppressors from the NFA restricted list?

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
9. there are different definitions of liberal
Sun Jan 15, 2017, 11:52 AM
Jan 2017

and often misused. To me "liberal" is someone who supports individual liberty, as opposed to conservative or progressive.
Liberals are individualists, while conservatives and progressives are collectivists.
There are a lot of "conservatives" that are really classical liberals and don't know it.

HAB911

(9,362 posts)
10. There seem to be a lot of Libertarians that claim to be Liberals
Sun Jan 15, 2017, 12:08 PM
Jan 2017

lib·er·tar·i·an
1. an adherent of libertarianism.
2.Philosophy - a person who believes in the doctrine of free will.

lib·er·tar·i·an·ism
an extreme laissez-faire political philosophy advocating only minimal state intervention in the lives of citizens.


lib·er·al
1. open to new behavior or opinions and willing to discard traditional values.
synonyms: progressive, advanced, modern, forward-looking, forward-thinking, progressivist, enlightened, reformist, radical
2.concerned mainly with broadening a person's general knowledge and experience, rather than with technical or professional training.


gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
11. your definition is wrong
Sun Jan 15, 2017, 12:19 PM
Jan 2017

I have no idea where you got it, but it describes neither accurately.
libertarians at the most extreme are anarchists. Some are right wing some are left wing. Noam Chomsky is an example of the latter.
https://www.politicsforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=153694

Classical liberals are more likely to support EPA, some kind of universal health care, etc than libertarians.

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
13. at least you cited it,
Sun Jan 15, 2017, 12:34 PM
Jan 2017

it doesn't mean it is correct or not over generalized.
you also skipped an important line

: broad-minded; especially : not bound by authoritarianism, orthodoxy, or traditional forms


Please explain how liberalizing regulations on something that does not create externalities is illiberal?
If silencers are unregulated in UK, New Zealand, France most of Scandinavia, why would it be an issue here? Public ranges in France require them, as do some hunting areas in Norway and Finland.

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,579 posts)
16. Hello
Sun Jan 15, 2017, 03:12 PM
Jan 2017


Maybe you missed this in #6: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172201978#post6
I don't see myself as monolithic. My pro-RKBA stance is not closely embraced by the Democratic Party but the right involved is acknowledged. There are aspects of the party platform which I would change.

I am pro-liberty and freedom and see the most valuable role for government to be ensuring the rights of individuals are respected.

I am quite "liberal" on many issues and less so on others.

For example, I did not like the medical coverage available 10 years ago, I'm not thrilled with the ACA but it's better, I favor government medical for all.

I like the idea of making BGCs available to private individuals who want to sell their guns.

A question for you: What's you position on the OP topic of removing suppressors from the NFA restricted list?
 

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)
29. Seems to be an old, tired tactic. Some DUers just aren't that liberal/left....
Tue Jan 17, 2017, 01:27 PM
Jan 2017

or they would proudly reveal their politics. Just sayin'.

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,579 posts)
30. Kind of goes along with the old tired tactic of...
Tue Jan 17, 2017, 02:46 PM
Jan 2017

...not answering questions that are uncomfortable. Better to run away.

oneshooter

(8,614 posts)
8. "Suppressor" Is the correct description.
Sun Jan 15, 2017, 11:38 AM
Jan 2017

It silences nothing, it merely slows down the velocity of the escaping gas.

krispos42

(49,445 posts)
5. So the party that wants the government to regulate products for safe use...
Sun Jan 15, 2017, 11:13 AM
Jan 2017

...doesn't want to allow mufflers on guns?

pablo_marmol

(2,375 posts)
23. Culture war directed at the GOP isn't good enough for this one.
Mon Jan 16, 2017, 02:12 AM
Jan 2017

He/she has to go after Democrats. Good strategy to pull ourselves from the abyss.

 

friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)
24. Gun prohibitionists demand that we all die politically with them on their particular hill
Mon Jan 16, 2017, 08:51 PM
Jan 2017

Given the havoc they've wreaked upon Democrats electoral chances in recent years, I'd say that our
responses have been more than polite-and far more gentle than they deserve, IMO.

derby378

(30,261 posts)
14. Well...
Sun Jan 15, 2017, 02:16 PM
Jan 2017

A silencer, suppressor, or whatever you want to call it is usually the difference between 110dB and 90dB. Still loud. I'd recommend ear plugs just in case.

I have yet to see a cop in America whose duty pistol is fitted with a silencer. Maybe in SWAT, but that's about it.

Mounting silencers on hunting rifles might not be such a bad idea, especially when teaching kids how to shoot for the very first time in a sane, responsible environment. Finland has pretty tough gun control laws, but silencers for hunting rifles are unrestricted over there.

I've fired a pistol with and without a silencer courtesy of a fellow Democrat, and I thank him for the opportunity.

No real endorsement from me in this post one way or another - just some observations to keep in mind.

yagotme

(3,819 posts)
19. The problem with this,
Sun Jan 15, 2017, 06:51 PM
Jan 2017

"I have yet to see a cop in America whose duty pistol is fitted with a silencer." is $. At approx. $3-400 per, that's a lot of scratch for a small, not counting a large dept. to lay out. A holstered sidearm, with suppressor attached, is considerably bulkier, considering all the other gear they are carrying.

melm00se

(5,060 posts)
25. they are that expensive
Mon Jan 16, 2017, 10:54 PM
Jan 2017

as demand for suppressors is heavily restricted which limits free market competition.

free them up, competition increases as more companies will enter the market and increase supply.

 

HoneyBadger

(2,297 posts)
26. In Africa you can buy them legally for as little as $50
Mon Jan 16, 2017, 11:27 PM
Jan 2017

Not sure of the quality, but it is a hell of a lot less complicated to build than a $200 rifle.

yagotme

(3,819 posts)
31. I wish they would drop the requirements here,
Tue Jan 17, 2017, 05:22 PM
Jan 2017

I'd like to have a couple. Shooting instruction is easier, as the bulky hearing protection isn't needed, esp. with .22.

 

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)
28. Well, folks wanted the U.S. to follow Europe's lead...
Tue Jan 17, 2017, 01:24 PM
Jan 2017

Where noise suppressors are bought over-the-counter, and in some countries are required for hunting.

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