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discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,576 posts)
Fri Nov 12, 2021, 04:33 PM Nov 2021

Cross-post: Pennsylvania Senate backs bill to allow guns to be carried without permit

From the PA group: https://www.democraticunderground.com/107415465 Thanks to TexasTowelie.
HARRISBURG — Pennsylvania’s state Senate on Tuesday approved two veto-bound firearms bills, including one to allow people to carry a loaded gun openly or concealed, without a permit, and another to punish municipalities that impose firearms ordinances that are stricter than state law.

Despite a certain veto from Gov. Tom Wolf, a Democrat, floor debate lasted nearly three hours, as Democrats warned that the result of such legislation becoming law would be more death and more violence amid already-spiking gun violence and the spread of illegal guns.

Republicans brushed aside the arguments, saying cities elsewhere with strict gun laws still have problems with gun violence and that law-abiding gun owners should not need the government’s permission to carry a firearm.

“This is about our Second Amendment and our right to bear arms,” said Senate Majority Leader Kim Ward, R-Westmoreland, during floor arguments. “The Second Amendment doesn’t say anything about restrictions on our right to bear arms.”

Read more: https://triblive.com/news/pennsylvania/pennsylvania-senate-backs-bill-to-allow-guns-to-be-carried-without-permit/
(Pittsburgh Tribune Review)

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Cross-post: Pennsylvania Senate backs bill to allow guns to be carried without permit (Original Post) discntnt_irny_srcsm Nov 2021 OP
"Second Amendment doesn't say anything about restrictions on our right to bear arms." multigraincracker Nov 2021 #1
BBZZZZZZZZZZZT! needledriver Nov 2021 #4
You are right, so multigraincracker Nov 2021 #5
How about them? If it's legal to own and/or carry a handgun, why should any of those be illegal? Dial H For Hero Nov 2021 #7
My neighbor melm00se Nov 2021 #8
What no broadsword nor morning star? discntnt_irny_srcsm Nov 2021 #9
Nope melm00se Nov 2021 #10
Without a doubt they can get pricey. discntnt_irny_srcsm Nov 2021 #11
Last broadsword melm00se Nov 2021 #12
I am happier for those whom my government helps and empowers... discntnt_irny_srcsm Nov 2021 #13
Anyone? PXR-5 Nov 2021 #2
It's complicated. discntnt_irny_srcsm Nov 2021 #6
Open carry has never required a permit in PA. Throck Nov 2021 #3

multigraincracker

(34,069 posts)
1. "Second Amendment doesn't say anything about restrictions on our right to bear arms."
Fri Nov 12, 2021, 04:36 PM
Nov 2021

It also says nothing about firearms or self defense. I want my nuclear missile now.

 

needledriver

(836 posts)
4. BBZZZZZZZZZZZT!
Fri Nov 12, 2021, 08:32 PM
Nov 2021

I invoke Needledriver's Corollary to Godwin's Law; the first person to cite Weapons of Mass Destruction in a discussion of the Right to Keep and Bear Arms renders the rest of the discussion Null and Void.

melm00se

(5,053 posts)
8. My neighbor
Sun Nov 14, 2021, 04:19 PM
Nov 2021

carries a "switchblade" (actually an automatic knife) when he fishes as he is unable to open a traditional folding knife.

I have several swords (officer's sabre from the 19th century Great Britain, a szabla also from the 19th century and 2 purely decorative rapiers that hang on my wall).

melm00se

(5,053 posts)
10. Nope
Sun Nov 14, 2021, 06:30 PM
Nov 2021

With the exception of the rapiers, I prefer real historical pieces and I have yet to come across a broadsword or other weapons like it in the price range I am willing to spend.

melm00se

(5,053 posts)
12. Last broadsword
Sun Nov 14, 2021, 09:25 PM
Nov 2021

(16th century IIRC) was north of $30K + auction buyers fee + import duties.

Plus, when I shipped my szabla back, it was a colossal PITA as customs really doesn't know their own rules. Thank god for smartphones and a link to DHS:

Customs and Border Protection does not prohibit the importation of swords, although your local police jurisdiction might have regulations restricting having these weapons in your home.


it still took a duty supervisor to acknowledge it was no problem.

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,576 posts)
13. I am happier for those whom my government helps and empowers...
Sun Nov 14, 2021, 10:01 PM
Nov 2021

...than I am frustrated by its own inability to follow its own rules... but just barely.

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,576 posts)
6. It's complicated.
Fri Nov 12, 2021, 11:04 PM
Nov 2021

This is not law. I think it's unlikely to become law anytime soon. This bill passed the PA Senate but would need to pass in the House as well and have the governor sign it into law. I think it's unlikely to pass in the House and, if it does, I think Tom Wolf is likely to veto it.

I know Philly and the state have a disagreement about whether open carry is legal in there without a permit as it is in the rest of the state. Concealed carry has always required a permit. In 1989 PA became a "shall-issue" state. That is the discretionary judgement of bureaucrats and other officials were removed from the process. You either had objective background issues like criminal convictions, active indictments, involuntary commitments or protection orders as concrete reasons not to be issued a permit or you got one if you applied. Shall-issue is the format I personally prefer. Right now 21 states are shall-issue and 21 others are unrestricted which is the measure that the PA Senate passed.

Historically Vermont is the only state to have always (for 200+ years) been unrestricted. Essentially this means that carrying concealed without a permit is not a crime.

In the unrestricted states a background check is still required to buy a gun at a gun store. A few states also have laws on the books requiring folks that buy from private sellers to pass background checks.

To answer the question, "Can anyone carry?" that's a yes. In unrestricted states it is still a crime to be in possession if you are a prohibited person. Here's a link to the list of who would be a prohibited person: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/identify-prohibited-persons

So yes anyone can carry openly or concealed but for some folks to do so in some places is illegal. The folks who usually do those sorts of things generally don't really care about it being illegal.

There are good and bad things to say on both sides of the "unrestricted carry" issue. I personally don't like it. I am convinced that I will never have the time or money to be informed, practiced and skilled enough to consider carrying at all except for maybe in some extreme wilderness setting.

Throck

(2,520 posts)
3. Open carry has never required a permit in PA.
Fri Nov 12, 2021, 07:52 PM
Nov 2021

We've done some deep woods canoing and hiking on state land south of Bradford for 20 years. Only black bears but you never wander into bear country unprepared. Only a precaution. Rangers and sheriffs highly recommend it. Always stop by my dad's house before I go. Bears leave us alone and we leave them alone. A few scares.

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