Gun Control & RKBA
Related: About this forumInteresting quote from the Alex Jones trial . . .
Scarlett Lewis, the mother of a child killed at Sandy Hook and plaintiff in the first of three defamation damages trials against Alex Jones,
What Jones did was to promote unfounded OPINION to a group of people susceptible to believing the government would murder 20 children to 'take away the guns.'
That's why it's important not to confuse OPINION with honest journalism. It's like equating religion to science.
If someone honestly cannot tell the difference they should follow Abraham Lincoln's advice and "Remain silent and be thought a fool rather than speak and remove all doubt."
If, on the other hand, they really do know the difference and speak anyway those who pay attention to them are the fools.
dchill
(40,645 posts)Crooked AF, but REALLY BIG!
mzmolly
(51,696 posts)It was bullshit and he knew it. Lies.
CaliforniaPeggy
(152,299 posts)A big, fat K&R.
Wednesdays
(20,315 posts)They contend that the phrase was coined by Maurice Switzer in 1906, and not by Mark Twain (which is the source I had heard) or Lincoln.
panader0
(25,816 posts)"En boca cerrado, no entran moscas."
In a closed mouth, no flies can enter.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,593 posts)AndyS
(14,559 posts)discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,593 posts)...made the relevant edit to convey the same. Are you unconvinced still by this reply?
AndyS
(14,559 posts)Journalism is the production and distribution of reports on the interaction of events, facts, ideas, and people that are the "news of the day" and that informs society to at least some degree.
The Herald is a source of public information and the article linked seemed to convey some politically based IDEAS which IMO loosely falls under the heading of journalism. My pointed difficulty has to do with:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journalism#Ethics_and_standards
"While various existing codes have some differences, most share common elements including the principles of truthfulness, accuracy, objectivity, impartiality, fairness and public accountability as these apply to the acquisition of newsworthy information and its subsequent dissemination to the public."
and
and
I'm sure there's...whatever.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,593 posts)I edited my post to fit what I expected fit your preferences.
I DON'T HAVE AN ARGUMENT with your idea on what "journalism" encompasses. I changed what I wrote to fit that.
Are you unhappy with me labeling the quote from the article as opinion?
Americans who hold the musket-rights granting Second Amendment near and dear to their hearts...
Would you prefer a term like whimsy, brain-fart, hyperbole, allegory, creative license or something I haven't yet guessed?
I prefer to remain congenial on the site and I got your message that you object to op-ed type opinion based information as not journalism. I will here and now acknowledge:
- my use of the term journalism was wrong
- I made a mistake
- I expect that many people may and probably do share your view
- You are the all-being master of the definition, scope and use of the term journalism.
I humbly ask that you stop looking to continue discussing what is obvious. Mea culpa, whatever,
AndyS
(14,559 posts)My Masters is in Photography and the Photo department at Texas A&M Commerce is in the Journalism school. As such I got a healthy dose of Journalistic ethics in all my courses. The emphasis of my degree was Commercial Photography but a prerequisite was Journalism 101; an overview of print, video and film news. Even in the Commercial world truth in advertising is part of the ethos. I was taught that in the '50s it became illegal to put marbles in soup when making illustrations for sales (the marbles push the solid ingredients to the surface making the soup look more hearty). So journalistic honesty is a big deal to me and to others steeped in the field.
The power of persuasion inherent in presenting media to the public is not something to be taken lightly even on discussion boards. With the ability to manipulate imagery today it is even more important to delineate honest fact from political and personal coloring. I can make any photograph look like anything I want and now there's even Deepfake. There is a place in discourse for emotion, feelings and gut reactions. There's a place for art vs reality but that line must be clear. That's why Newspapers have separate sections for the opinion page and Letters to the Editor.
Again, I accept your honest apology and ask that you understand my passionate reaction.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,593 posts)Have a nice weekend.
mackdaddy
(1,601 posts)I found this from a university site on writing and the differences between Facts, Opinions and Beliefs.
https://writing.colostate.edu/guides/teaching/co300man/pop12d.cfm
Distinguishing Fact, Opinion, Belief, and Prejudice
When forming personal convictions, we often interpret factual evidence through the filter of our values, feelings, tastes, and past experiences. Hence, most statements we make in speaking and writing are assertions of fact, opinion, belief, or prejudice. The usefulness and acceptability of an assertion can be improved or diminished by the nature of the assertion, depending on which of the following categories it falls into:
A fact is verifiable. We can determine whether it is true by researching the evidence. This may involve numbers, dates, testimony, etc. (Ex.: "World War II ended in 1945." The truth of the fact is beyond argument if one can assume that measuring devices or records or memories are correct. Facts provide crucial support for the assertion of an argument. However, facts by themselves are worthless unless we put them in context, draw conclusions, and, thus, give them meaning.
An opinion is a judgment based on facts, an honest attempt to draw a reasonable conclusion from factual evidence. (For example, we know that millions of people go without proper medical care, and so you form the opinion that the country should institute national health insurance even though it would cost billions of dollars.) An opinion is potentially changeable--depending on how the evidence is interpreted. By themselves, opinions have little power to convince. You must always let your reader know what your evidence is and how it led you to arrive at your opinion.
Unlike an opinion, a belief is a conviction based on cultural or personal faith, morality, or values. Statements such as "Capital punishment is legalized murder" are often called "opinions" because they express viewpoints, but they are not based on facts or other evidence. They cannot be disproved or even contested in a rational or logical manner. Since beliefs are inarguable, they cannot serve as the thesis of a formal argument. (Emotional appeals can, of course, be useful if you happen to know that your audience shares those beliefs.)
Another kind of assertion that has no place in serious argumentation is prejudice, a half-baked opinion based on insufficient or unexamined evidence. (Ex.: "Women are bad drivers." Unlike a belief, a prejudice is testable: it can be contested and disproved on the basis of facts. We often form prejudices or accept them from others--family, friends, the media, etc.--without questioning their meaning or testing their truth. At best, prejudices are careless oversimplifications. At worst, they reflect a narrow-minded view of the world. Most of all, they are not likely to win the confidence or agreement of your readers.
(Adapted from: Fowler, H. Ramsey. The Little, Brown Handbook. Boston: Little, Brown, 1986.)
AndyS
(14,559 posts)that was true.
Discourse has degenerated to my opinion is just as important as your fact.
Free speech has become synonymous with slander because freedom, unless someone takes the time, money and effort to confront it.
Journalistic outlets make the separation of opinion and reporting obvious because reporting is held to a standard of verification and fact that opinions don't carry. Just as newspapers publish Letters to the Editor they don't purport to verify the content any more than they do the opinions expressed on the opinion page. There is a huge difference in the standard the pieces are held to.
The point is that when someone uses an opinion piece to lambast honest journalism by equating the two it is disingenuous at best.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,593 posts)Warpy
(113,131 posts)or even that they're fools. See: Dunning-Kruger Effect.
Maybe the disinformation squad will realize they'd better go back to Bigfoot sightings rather than slander people who can sue them. If one of them has been badly hurt when a victim fights back, the potential is there for all of them.
Remember, bullies are the biggest cowards out there. They'll always go for the weakest targets and I don't see Bigfoot suing them.
jaxexpat
(7,794 posts)"Liar is liable", I like that. I'm adopting it, already picked out the wallpaper for its room. So proud.
hadEnuf
(2,758 posts)It's 100% lying propaganda by a whack job that HATES our current form of government and loves to torment grieving Amercan families while making millions at it.
He is one of the lowest forms of life and that's not an opinion.
It's a FACT.
Rebl2
(14,863 posts)should be on a plaque in every congress person and senators office.