This whole thing was a DNC planned event, to rile up the crowd by doing untoward things to Sanders supporters. But you're right, I've heard no less than four people who were there, and said there was absolutely no violence. The crowd was "restive," certainly. And that was justifiable. But there wasn't any violence, at least not in the Sanders camp.

This was the "Dean Scream," but since Sanders hadn't reacted in this way, they had to organize an event to make it "seem" like something was happening.

And as with the scream, not only do the news outlets go crazy with in this case, the lie, but all of the comedy networks do too. It's been joked about on Colbert, and I Heard Trevor Noah do a bit about it the other night, both very defamatory to both Sander's voters, and their campaign. They are "working it," no doubt, and I believe it was the plan from the start to whip the crowd up hoping for something, then tear them to pieces in the media.

The fix is in, well, it's been in for half a year or so.

which is about as much time as they give any story on that irreverent show.

This was on yesterday's show - AFTER the NPR Ombudsman said the "riot" was a lie, and AFTER Snopes said it was FALSE.

I love mocking politicians with the truth. When you are mocking them with lies, it's called propaganda.

So it was recorded before the Ombudsman said the riot was a lie.

This is the age of the internet.

The TV news isn't what Bernie supporters rely on for information.

The TV news is not to be trusted to tell the truth, and Bernie supporters just take that for granted. We knew that going into this campaign.

I only watch the TV news clips fit to be posted on DU. Years and years ago, I dropped my newspaper subscription because of the Iraq War lies. And the TV was such an expensive annoyance that we opted for good internet service instead.

Lots of people have made the same choices we have. TV news can bluster and fluster all it wants, we look for the truth. And if TV news can't provide it, we look elsewhere.

There are just so many good internet programs. I can't even list them all because if I try I will surely leave some deserving programs out. So many good internet news programs.

Won't it?

The back two pages of The Week were devoted to Nevada, and repeated the "thrown chairs" lie.

They are always a few days behind the times.

and no one challenges them on it in real time it is true to tens of millions of people and that's enough to enable the MSM

right now my local idiot blowhard, doing 6 hours a week on the loudest radio station in the state, a limbaugh megastation, is repeating that the media is liberal and in the tank for the dems like all those stations have for 30 years, and crazy bernie's a commie, etc

that station would lose most of its local advertisers if the university of new mexico campus started having discussions about the absurdity of broadcasting sports on it - therefore endorsing the liars and republican propagandists and global warming deniers and pub education defunders that do 75 hrs a week there.

every time they ask for donations or to become an alumni i email back saying i will consider doing those things once they stop using those those stations.


edited to add thanks for providing the list of schools that do that!

down, while the hotel security in front of the stage looked on helplessly. That's a job for the cops.

I guess the Paris Hotel is also part of the conspiracy with the media.

You're trying to make the case that since blood wasn't running across the floor, there was no violence. Here's the thing that makes the eyebrows on reasonable people launch into the stratosphere; you're quibbling over labels and ignoring the actual intent of those involved in the incident. You also don't take into account just how damaging those optics were, not only impacting Sanders, but spilling over on Hillary and the whole Democratic Party.

In any other venue, the chaotic actions depicted in those scenes would rightly make any normal person feel intimidated, fearful and threatened. When a large group of angry people leave their seats and rushed the stage, yelling obscenities, booing and the cat-calling, shaking their fists and creating a disruption that stopped the proceedings and brought in the police to restore order, most people see that as violent behavior. Sanders followers might not even consider death threats rise to the level of "violent" behavior since no one is actually dead yet, so what description is appropriate for what see?

Your whole argument falls apart because you cannot control so many negative visuals. The American public is watching the same videos that Sanders people claim validate their perceptions, and yet the viewers have the opposite takeaway. They see Sanders people behaving in a violent manner, just like they've seen Sanders fans in past who were trying to disrupt Trump's rallies and intimidate Hillary's fans who came to her events. Now they know Sanders by his supporters who have earned a history of violent misbehaviors.

Projecting much?

Violence is denying one single American health care.

Violence is war.

Violence is letting Wall Street steal all they want with ZERO accountability.

Violence is what fire does to places that used to get rain.

The list of violence goes on.

Violent people are not Bernie Sanders Supporters.

It is the opposite.

You can only screw so many people so many times before they get riled.

Violence is watching mothers die in childbirth because they can't get the same level of care as the rest of the industrialized world.

You keep pushing for the lies of the 1%, and I will keep the revolution alive.

This is about the visuals of Sanders representative delegates at the Democratic party convention, yeah? If you can't find a cogent response to the topic at hand then start a new thread to spotlight the other things -- fire? -- you apprent want to focus on.

Me too.

if the chairwoman wouldn't have called the voice vote when it obviously wasn't clear, Sanders' supporters wouldn't have booed. It works both ways. If you are unfair and undemocratic, people are going to get angry and you are going to get booed and you are damn lucky if there is no violence.

One theory of democracy is that its main purpose is to allow peaceful revolutions. The idea is that majorities voting in elections approximate the result of a coup. In 1962, John F. Kennedy famously said, "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonviolent_revolution

To push a narrative, and attract viewers.

They are really hurting Democrats with their lack of factual reporting, and I don't know what we can do to push back.

I have some ideas......

The chair has the final rule. Always. That is the rule.

Quote me no quotes. Sanders campaign agreed, and signed off on the existing rules that have been in place since 2008. Sanders' supporters were the representative delegates of his campaign, and they too agreed when they received their credentials. The rules are online, anyone can read them.

To pretend that this was "unfair and undemocratic" is nonsensical. Sanders campaign failed to thoroughly vet their delegate applicants and a result they were unable to present enough qualified delegates. They got angry, not because the screwed up, but because Hillary won. Yet here you are throwing around implied threats -- "and you are damn lucky if there is no violence" -- to actually harm people simply because you lot got outplayed.

Tsk-tsk-tsk.

She is not an absolute dictator. The convention uses RRoO as its legal system. People who violate a meeting held under RRoR can be hauled into court for violating RRoR.

Did you ever here the quaint phrase "point of order".

There are rules and the chairwoman broke them. Sorry you don't understand Democracy 101.

Here's the thing, Robert’s Rules of Order is not binding or mandatory in any proceedings, and there is no law that requires the use of any particular set of parliamentary rules for meetings. Some associations allow for Robert’s Rules of Order, or a similar such handbook, to serve as an acceptable parliamentary guide for their meetings, but the actual governing documents for the association always takes precedence.

If Sanders did not like the fact that the party rules gave all the power to the chair, his campaign shouldn't have agreed to participate, but they did so without objection. Sanders made a fatal error in not insisting on a more favorable change in the party's rules beforehand, and as a result of that stupidly preventable mistake, he got outwitted and outplayed.

If their intent was actual violence, why did they stop the guy who picked up a chair?

Where was the rushing of the stage? I saw a group of loosely milling people shouting and raising arms in the air. That was not violence.

If their actual intent was violence, why didn't they follow through?

Yeah, I thought so. Instead they "immediately" take the chair away from chair guy and hug him to calm him down. That is not violence. That is not even intent of violence. That was intent of keeping things non-violent.

Shouting is not violence, even if it contains swear words.

Intent of violence is not even violence if it never happens. Violence is physical contact.

...because I have watched all the video I can find, and saw nothing like that, nor have there been any legitimate written accounts of "rushing the stage". Are you sure anyone "rushed" THIS stage?


Maybe you are just a little confused (I'm being kind),
because if anyone "rushed" THAT stage, there would have been blood running across the floor, and every media outlet would be playing it 24/7

You also stated:
"ignoring the actual intent of those involved in the incident"
Do you know what the "actual intent" of the booing and loud protest was?
Were you there?
How can YOU know "the actual intent"?
Do you claim to be psychic...or a mind reader?

Yes. There was no blood running on the floor.
There were also NO attacks or assaults (except one by a Hillary supporter).
There were NO arrests.
There were NO police reports.
There was nobody "escorted" out of the premises
There were NO reported injuries.
There was NO property damage.
There WAS a large Police Presence.
All that adds up to :
There was NO violence.

I reject your conclusion because it is based on false and/or imaginary evidence.
You can not support your claims.

Those are some pretty intimidating Police! And, they look like the type that don't appreciate liberals.

I read many times that 'chairs and bottles were thrown' That did not happen. It is you who is trying to change the subject from those obvious lies.
Your theory seems to be that it is ok to make up fully fictional accusations against people because it was a tense situation. That's not how it works.

People who said chairs were thrown lied. People who said bottles were thrown lied. There is no mitigating those deceitful words. There is no excuse for smearing people with lies. Ever.

Everyone has known about this for years. And just like our corrupt political system, nothing will ever become of this.

So I have an idea. Let's fix the corrupt political system first, then the media. That means NO MORE oligarchs in power!!!!! No exceptions!!!!

"The Clintons also established financial ties with many individuals in the media including Chris Matthews (indirectly), Stephanie Cutter, Maria Cardona, Sara Fagen, Hari Sevugan, and Lynda Tran. Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos, who purchased The Washington Post in 2013, made millions as a result of a government contract through the State Department while Clinton was Secretary. Former right wing political hitman David Brock, who runs several pro-Clinton super PACs that coordinate directly with the campaign, purchased Blue Nation Review. CNN too has financial ties to the Clintons. It is owned by Time Warner, one of the former Secretary’s largest career donors. Similarly, Comcast which owns MSNBC, is another big Clinton donor. David Cohen, Comcast’s executive vice president even threw her a fundraiser..."

https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2016/05/how-the-hell-we-got-here-why-the-democratic-party.html

Yesterday, one of their "reasonable" voices even said Sanders "has unleashed" violence in his followers.

So, it's all of us. And we were just waiting for the command from our vicious Leader. Then they compared him and us to Trump, and his followers.

If that's the case, that would account for the lies.

I don't listen to them...I remember gasping multiple times in frustration when Mitt rMoney was running. The constant fascinated coverage they gave home, no questions asked, while mostly ignoring any of President Obama's activities and accomplishments aide me want to scream until my vocal chords broke.

They've tried to destroy the neutrality of the internet. They continue to buy up as many local radio stations as they can. People need to be aware that the fright wing only has lies to sell, so they try to take over all the media outlets. At least most Russians knew that Pravda was propaganda.

It's a non-profit that receives its funding from a combination of public and private sources.

However, some of its sources of funding justifiably raise eyebrows for those of us who worry that it is parroting the corporate line. (For that reason, I abandoned it years ago and turned to truly listener-sponsored Pacifica instead.)

In addition, it has "corporate underwriting spots," which is basically just a euphemism for polite commercials. It's difficult to believe that a program underwritten by, say, Archer Daniels Midland, would handle stories related to Big Ag objectively, any more than I'd believe that someone who accepted hundreds of thousands of dollars in speaking fees from Goldman Sachs would effectively tackle malfeasance in the financial sector.

I have some awareness that NPR couldn't be relied on anymore to be objective. I knew it had something to do with whom was providing the funding.

We here in OKIEhoma get treated to local news on KGOU, an NPR station, every day brought to us by Koch Industries. Over the past 3-5 years there has been a pronounced shift to "news" with an openly right wing bent. I used to donate to them, but will not as long as they spout Koch crap.

From DKos:

PBS And NPR: Subsidiaries Of Koch Industries?
By MrTrueLiberal
Friday Jul 12, 2013 · 4:45 PM EDT

http://www.npr.org/...

The story linked to above could be a prime example of a David Koch-funded NPR “news” story which means that NPR reporter Julie Rovner could be regarded as a Koch employee. Koch has heavily funded PBS and until recently sat on the boards of WNET New York and WBGH Boston so it can be assumed that he and/or brother Charles have also put a few hefty pay packets into the coffers of NPR. Read here about David Koch and PBS: http://www.dailykos.com/...

And more on this from Jane Meyer with The New Yorker: http://www.newyorker.com/...

So they are in fact easy to corral, they are dependent.

…..just around the time of the run up to the Iraq War.

It's in the public sector, so can't be "bought out" in the traditional sense, but the Bush administration filled its board of directors with political appointees who were hand-picked for their conservative beliefs.

how low will he go!

Please substantiate; direct quotes from him and what is untrue about them. Reputable sources, please.

Thanks in advance.

LOL Of course, he/she cannot. Sigh!

Bernie, if going low is what is necessary, here is 5 million shovels.

More if needed.

There is a special place in hell for people propping up our Oligarchy.

A New OP.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/125210422

for you to reach the curb. "Know your enemy". That is well said. Just like "procon" which seems like it means pro-conservative. Tired of the nay sayers of either of the candidates. Leave and don't return.

Corporate media kills another candidate based on nothing.

The Oligarchs are not gonna be happy soon......

Imagine them having to pay taxes like the rest of us.

Confirm. Confirm. Confirm.

Now we have the right wing media, Republicans, have dreamed of. We quit telling the truth about them but they have amped up the lying about us.


Consumers beware. Seriously.

but the Progressive Movement is too huuuuuuuuge.

Bernie talked about the rigged game with all the super delegates coronating Hillary in "the anointment process" before the primaries even started with Jake Tapper. Jake got in a tizzy when Bernie mentioned he was the stronger candidate.

CNN Employee: "He's really been taking on a much harsher tone towards the democratic process, and leadership at large" "he refused to outright answer yes or no if the candidate at the end of this contest with the most pledged delegates should get the nomination".

Bad, bad Bernie. He is sooooo bad. Not answering questions.

What if all the polls showed Trump slaughtering Hillary, and Bernie slaughtering Trump? They forgot to mention this scenario while beating up on Bernie.

Should Bernie surrender if the game has clearly been rigged?

Tough question.

Of which there was absolutely ZERO proof of.

How can I double the whole rec amt? Damn thing doesn't give instructions.

The story needs to be told alright, scottie, but the M$M ain't going to tell it. Even Rachel, for God's sake! Damn. Not Cenk though. Look at it this way, scottie my friend, nothing like a Primary to find out who is who in your chosen political party. Who your friends are and who aren't. Eff the M$M. Turn 'em off whenever they start spouting obvious lies and propaganda.

But in all categories that matter concerning journalistic integrity, they are the equal of Fox News.

CNN and MSNBC, are terrible citizens and as far removed from journalists as a person selling perfume at as superstore. They lie, misinform and omit important stories, to the point of them harming the country on a daily basis. That goes for everyone that comes to mind on both stations.

What makes them worse than Fox, in my view, is the arrogance, the pretense to integrity and the hypocrisy.

Pfft. "Journalism."



==============

now I understand.

chair throwing incident? the one with the one guy holding up one chair and then lowering it when a bernie sanders supporter approached him and got him to put it down - and then there was a hug fest? or the one with people yelling when the minority report was not going to be read and when roberta lange declared the final results without a vote? or one of the monkeyed you tube postings?

which video tape?

Because if any turn out to be blowouts, people tune out. And there goes their ad revenue from big corp.

Fox News isn't news and that isn't news, but their mission might be. Their mission is to entertain. Not distribute news. Entertain. Google it.

I haven't seen the angry crowd depicted. Can't. I don't watch the news anymore. There's too much crap masquerading as news. Fluff. Informercial gibberish that has almost no relevance to people's lives and none on mine. Three years, I've been without T.V. news.

No more aggravation.

Stop watching. We need to take away their power. MSM is pollution.

Buncha insults slammed back and forth and no actual issues that make a difference in people's lives discussed.

The Democratic primary was seen by the media as a snooze fest.

Remember first and foremost. The media in this country is tasked with the job of making you forget.

It's mindless infotainment that is designed to distract you from your own life's problems.

Especially those problems that could be solved by government if it took the power back from the rich.

and others rushing to judgement in condemning and even ridiculing Bernie Sanders supporters in an effort to launch Hillary into the White House.

Bernie champions, whether it's higher taxation on the wealthy, raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour, overturning Citizens United, being against super-pacs, waging war as a last resort instead of a first, breaking up the bank monopolies, going after Big Pharma, all of these and more either threaten the corporate media conglomerates, their upper management, million dollar pundits, corporate parents which have direct interests in the military industrial complex or commercial buying clients.

The only times they ever give a rat's ass about "democracy" is when they can use it as a talking point in motivating the American People to wage war or overthrow some foreign government.

The American People are only mindless consumers to the corporate media conglomerates to be used, manipulated, sold and discarded.

Thanks for the thread, scottie55.

Is that all media is owned by a couple mega corporations who an agenda. They do not report news they create news. The Nevada caucus was a setup. They rammed through for Hillary and we have seen them do this at nearly every caucus event. There was no riot. There were several hundred angry people , people who took their own time to participate in an event they considered to be important . That's the problem.

the dishonest in media. I've been in a riot, there were deaths, injuries, lots of property damage and a massive number of arrests. The police review footage from such events and they will arrest on the spot or later on. I see no arrests, no property damage, no violence of any kind.

You use words as if they had no actual meanings: Riot means '1. a violent disturbance of the peace by a crowd.'

But you lack all evidence of violence. There was none.

Mendacity is a sacrament to the mediocre.

violence.

violence, just free speech.

Is that it?

That means that when anyone is victim of such crimes they need to go to law enforcement. I see none of that. I see no arrests, I see no actual proof that those calls were not made by a ratfucking Trump supporter, or for that matter a Hillary supporter.
So when I see claims of being victim to a crime that are taken to the media and presented with full motive and statement of facts not in evidence I do not believe those claims.
People who make death threats are described as criminals, they belong to the criminal cohort. Of course, many people like to play 'Oh the guilty party is from minority X, so that's what they are all like' games. That's the game I see being played. They don't even present one guilty party. They just claim the entire Sanders campaign is culpable. Based on nothing.

What you are doing is reckless. You and all the Clinton folks are exploiting and pumping up this bullshit, what you are doing is attempting to incite actual violence. This tactic is exactly the same as what Trump does.
And it needs to end.

I remember listening to Molly Ball on the show yesterday and becoming very, very angry when Ball talked about Sanders people "hurling" things at the Nevada State Chairwoman:

From: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/face-the-nation-transcripts-may-22-2016-sanders/

BALL: "I think it's gotten a lot worse. I have actually been surprised at the level of acrimony. And-- and you know, the Clinton campaign believes that this is not a significant obstacle for her once we get to the General Election that the part of the reason it's become so acrimonious is that the-- the last sort of hard core that clings to a losing candidate is always going to be the most ardent and bitter and-- and-- and unable to see reality, perhaps. But it has, you know, we saw with the Nevada convention, some really ugly things being hurled at the state chairwoman there by the Bernie Sanders' supporters [Underline mine], and I think that shows you that-- and, you know, going back to this question about do Democrats come home the way Republicans come home, it's actually a different question for Hillary Clinton than that because so much of Bernie Sanders support has come from independents in open primaries. So she doesn't have to only bring in-- to bring in his supporters she doesn't only need to bring home Democrats but a lot of independents and a lot of young people who may never have voted before who have been absolutely immune to her charms in this Democratic primary."

IN the context of the baseless accusations against the Sanders supporters regarding violence at the convention, Ball's statement about "some really ugly things being hurled at the state chairwoman there by the Bernie Sanders' supporters" is a clear dog-whistle, one unsupported by facts but clearly an accusation that Molly Ball wanted to make but knew she could not support.

This really, really made me angry as it reinforces a LIE!!!

Go Bernie!!