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nycbos

(6,391 posts)
Fri Sep 6, 2024, 08:39 AM Sep 2024

How Accurate is Monty Python's Anarcho-Syndicalist Peasant Scene?

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I know this is normally different then what is posted here, but I thought it was too good not to share. And it's somewhat political nature. There might've been some truth to the constitutional peasants from Monty Python.
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How Accurate is Monty Python's Anarcho-Syndicalist Peasant Scene? (Original Post) nycbos Sep 2024 OP
I would say, 'not very accurate' for the time period EYESORE 9001 Sep 2024 #1
Ah. Not trying to be pedantic but this did occur wolfie001 Sep 2024 #3
If only the peasantry had 'acted up' in Arthurian times EYESORE 9001 Sep 2024 #4
So true my DU friend wolfie001 Sep 2024 #5
I've read a lot of historical romance novels MyMission Sep 2024 #2
Communal farms Cirsium Sep 2024 #6

EYESORE 9001

(27,612 posts)
1. I would say, 'not very accurate' for the time period
Fri Sep 6, 2024, 09:01 AM
Sep 2024

Peasants in Britain wouldn’t have been likely to organize, lest they run afoul of some local warlord - much less the king of the realm. Perhaps there’s an analogy among the peasantry in areas with high Slavic populations. I understand they were latecomers to the feudal system.

wolfie001

(3,834 posts)
3. Ah. Not trying to be pedantic but this did occur
Fri Sep 6, 2024, 10:19 AM
Sep 2024


It didn't end well but, I'm sure it influenced in how the royalty treated their underlings just a bit.

EYESORE 9001

(27,612 posts)
4. If only the peasantry had 'acted up' in Arthurian times
Fri Sep 6, 2024, 10:23 AM
Sep 2024

They may have forestalled imposition of a rigid feudalistic system.

MyMission

(2,000 posts)
2. I've read a lot of historical romance novels
Fri Sep 6, 2024, 10:02 AM
Sep 2024

With many set in medieval times, and based on historical accuracy, I've read about castles left in the care of a seneschal, steward, vassal, guardian, proctor, chamberlain, agent, and other terms I can't recall. The Lord might be residing on another estate, serving the king in battle or at court, too young to manage the holding; or the property might be part of a dowry (of an orphaned or illegitimate female) which has been left to be tended by someone until the dowry gets transferred to the husband.

Sometimes this property has been well managed, life is good, and the residents fear who might become their new Lord. Other times the property and or the peasants have been abused by the caretaker, and the new Lord and Lady restore the estate and make the peasants lives better.

I could certainly imagine an estate or 2 where something like a constitutional collective developed. The person in charge sets the tone, and some old steward might have implemented this system to ensure things would run smoothly, to avoid a conflict over who's in charge and who profits. Seems like a fair system to me! Early seeds of democracy.

Interesting to learn about the existence of a collective in Germany.
Thanks for sharing this. I appreciated it.

Cirsium

(1,121 posts)
6. Communal farms
Fri Sep 6, 2024, 01:15 PM
Sep 2024

Communal farming was common in the UK before the notorious Enclosure Acts.

A Short History of Enclosure in Britain

Over the course of a few hundred years, much of Britain's land has been privatized — that is to say taken out of some form of collective ownership and management and handed over to individuals. Currently, in our "property-owning democracy", nearly half the country is owned by 40,000 land millionaires, or 0.06 per cent of the population,1 while most of the rest of us spend half our working lives paying off the debt on a patch of land barely large enough to accommodate a dwelling and a washing line.

...

Private ownership of land, and in particular absolute private ownership, is a modern idea, only a few hundred years old. "The idea that one man could possess all rights to one stretch of land to the exclusion of everybody else" was outside the comprehension of most tribespeople, or indeed of medieval peasants. The king, or the Lord of the Manor, might have owned an estate in one sense of the word, but the peasant enjoyed all sorts of so-called "usufructory" rights which enabled him, or her, to graze stock, cut wood or peat, draw water or grow crops, on various plots of land at specified times of year.

The open field system of farming, which dominated the flatter more arable central counties of England throughout the later medieval and into the modern period, is a classic common property system which can be seen in many parts of the world. The structure of the open fields system in Britain was influenced by the introduction of the caruca a large wheeled plough, developed by the Gauls, which was much more capable of dealing with heavy English clay soils than the lightweight Roman aratrum (Fr araire ). The caruca required a larger team of oxen to pull it —as many as eight on heavy soils — and was awkward to turn around, so very long strips were ideal. Most peasants could not afford a whole team of oxen, just one or two, so maintaining an ox team had to be a joint enterprise. Peasants would work strips of land, possibly proportionate to their investment in the ox team. The lands were farmed in either a two or three course rotation, with one year being fallow, so each peasant needed an equal number of strips in each section to maintain a constant crop year on year.

https://thelandmagazine.org.uk/articles/short-history-enclosure-britain

The Enclosure Acts were laws passed by the British Parliament to enclose, or fence off, farm land that had been previously open. Many enclosure acts were passed from about 1600 to 1900, thereby shutting off peasants from common lands on which they could formerly graze their sheep and raise crops.

The Enclosure Acts were passed so that landowners could make higher profits from their land and increase agricultural productivity. Farmers began to use techniques that resulted in higher yields and profits.

In addition, peasants who formerly worked the land were forced to leave rural areas because their labor was not needed. As a result, they flooded into urban areas before and during the Industrial Revolution, often forming part of the new factory working class. They also often immigrated--first to Northern Ireland and then to British colonies in the New World. Therefore, the process of enclosure resulted in augmenting the processes of urbanization, industrialization, and immigration. In addition, many historians cite the process of enclosure as the beginning of capitalism and the end of feudalism, as lands that were formerly held in common (or held by lords and used by peasants) became the domains of individuals who used them to increase profits.

https://www.enotes.com/topics/european-history/questions/what-was-impact-enclosure-acts-new-farming-619053

The law locks up the man or woman
Who steals the goose from off the common
But leaves the greater villain loose
Who steals the common from off the goose

The law demands that we atone
When we take things we do not own
But leaves the lords and ladies fine
Who take things that are yours and mine

The poor and wretched don't escape
If they conspire the law to break
This must be so but they endure
Those who conspire to make the law

The law locks up the man or woman
Who steals the goose from off the common
And geese will still a common lack
Till they go and steal it back

17th Century protest song

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