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Duncanpup

(13,689 posts)
Fri Dec 8, 2023, 10:04 AM Dec 2023

Thinking of my son in laws and old man this morning two tour Vietnam vet.

Son in law three tour army vet one Iraq two afghan stopped around to borrow my car to drive to VA outpatient PTSD care I love my son in laws I actually will hug them and kiss both son in laws on foreheads both vets war on terror other son in law naval corpsman walked with marine infantry Iraq.

My father two tours with the Herd sky soldiers 173rd airborne brigade he was retired medically in 1971 he lost leg on his second tour he was career soldier enlisted in 1963.

Me I was lucky 84-87 my first duty assignment was 82nd 325 PIR then PCS West Germany medical broke ankle twice on drops months apart broken yet oh well off to leg land and I was lucky total peace time.

In conversation with my son he was asking me why I never was close with my father I told him later in life about 1990 we kind had detente between him and my brothers and i.

I said your grandfather had a lot of fucking memories that he would medicate with whisky and in turn your grandmother packed all five us boys up in the 70’s and she left.

They both my parents never divorced they eventually got back together and had decent marriage until the old man was killed in 2001 in car accident.

Yet we we’re talking about his brother my other boy who dropped out college to enlist in marine corp I said here is hoping his time as well is all peace.

And talking to my boy who was getting ready for local university this morning I said probably in 85 I actually started to understand why my father was way he was.

Now in no way do I take my time in service that seriously we were kids most us 18 years old I enlisted just see if I could do it cuz I’m like I wonder.

Yet I said to my kiddo after the gym coffee and showering at home. I said so we’re on weapons range down at Bragg and we’re being taught how to operate Warsaw pact weapons why I asked him ( Ok sarcasm Du community) the mission of the 82nd is to jump in and to become surrounded seriously it is not trying to drink all the booze in Fayetteville or Fayettenam and screw all the airborne groupies.

So you have to cross train and so it’s at night and I’m watching my bros lite up the targets with the RPG and the AK47 the AK 74 and the 12/7 a Sov heavy machine gun 51 cal just like we have our 50 caliber ma deuces.

Now Nato we have red tracers Warsaw pact green tracers and i told my boy watching the Dshk 51 rounds go out maybe deflect fly up into night sky listening to the thump thump of it firing feeling the blast waves coming off of it I started thinking of the old man.

What it must have been like for my father and his fellow sky soldiers bros constantly miserable frightened maybe middle no moon night on side of a mountain in Vietnam just exhausted very little sleep and then from maybe all day humping through mountain jungles then you gotta dig in build two man fighting holes cut trees for top cover.

Then maybe you got go out on ambush just get cat naps oh god for me I been terrified of getting listening post two maybe three men and a radio pitch fucking black. Straining to listen to any foreign sound is that a NVA trooper that broke a branch moving perhaps five feet from me.

Can’t see a fucking thing remember this was pre Nods night sights. Or your on watch in your night time defensive you built and you hear thunk thunk fuck tube’s incoming mortars and you roll over grab your compass and map under poncho using red lense trying to get direction on enemy tubes for counter battery fire.

Then mortars hit start crunching tearing through you defense perimeter then they stop silence you know what’s up next you been through it before they coming to kill you.
Then maybe you hear a NVA NCO blow his whistle coming from jungle signaling his men maybe he’s fine NCO your doppelgänger being American NCO you both love and care four your young troopers.

Then the night erupts green tracers pouring into your line your people pouring out counter suppressing fire from their fighting positions red tracers and under flares you see NVA troopers running up mountain side coming out jungle.

Oh I said to my son to me the worse would been being on listening post you radio maybe two other guys NVA swarming all around you on way to try overrun your positions imagine the fear I said to my son.

So reason my father was the way he was because of experiencing life like this as young adult.

You better be screaming into that PRC radio cuz fuck being silent now and let the CP know listening post your trying to crawl out line of both fires the stress your completely alone with your fear of I’m gonna die tonight.

So I said standing next to that Dushka heavy on that range that night I started feeling empathy for my father he was on receiving end of that monster probably many times.

So yea he was ok from a distance it’s just he had his demons and after that night I started trying to understand him more. And yea I’m glad we kind got to know each other later so I realize he suffered PTSD and before sought help he didn’t know and then in the 80’s PTSD was in its infancy of treatment.


One tour of that shit mess you up two tours yea no way.
Anyway just a ramble my mind is racing this morning take it easy D.U. Community love the one your with and if you know combat vet give them hug and kiss their forehead.

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Thinking of my son in laws and old man this morning two tour Vietnam vet. (Original Post) Duncanpup Dec 2023 OP
I enlisted in the Navy at 20 to keep my ex-Marine dad from telling me to shut up at the dinner table over Viet Nam ... marble falls Dec 2023 #1
Had an uncle who went to Viet Nam 3 times ggma Dec 2023 #2
You always make me think. Srkdqltr Dec 2023 #3
A Novel treatment for PTSD is emerging IbogaProject Dec 2023 #6
My dad served in WWII, Korea and Vietnam. Brothers enlisted to avoid the draft and Nam. Nanuke Dec 2023 #4
You teach with your down-to-earth stories....and you heal. Thank you. democrank Dec 2023 #5
Hugs to you democrank Duncanpup Dec 2023 #7
True and good and real Easterncedar Dec 2023 #8

marble falls

(62,047 posts)
1. I enlisted in the Navy at 20 to keep my ex-Marine dad from telling me to shut up at the dinner table over Viet Nam ...
Fri Dec 8, 2023, 10:16 AM
Dec 2023

... ended up being one of my better decisions.

The old man stopped his drinking in one day in his fities. He came down to the breakfast table and told my mom that he realized everything bad in his life came out of drinking. "What took you so long?", asked my mom.

ggma

(711 posts)
2. Had an uncle who went to Viet Nam 3 times
Fri Dec 8, 2023, 10:25 AM
Dec 2023

He wasn't "right in the head" afterwards. Almost destroyed the family before he died in2011. I know why he was crazy; didn't stop the pain he caused.

No judgements here; I am always uplifted to hear about salvaged relationships and I am so glad you and your Dad found each other again. That reconnecting makes me happy.

Love you for your willingness to share your life with us/me.

gg

Srkdqltr

(7,656 posts)
3. You always make me think.
Fri Dec 8, 2023, 10:51 AM
Dec 2023

I'm not from a military family . Some relatives were in ww2 but I didn't know them well. Husband was in the National Guard but never to a war zone. So I have no direct knowledge of battles.
Got me thinking about PTSD and head injuries which only recently have been acknowledged and dealt with properly. It will be a while before some people with these injuries allow themselves to be treated properly. Very sad for all. I think about all that is going on now and how the wars will impact people's behavior in the future.
I have no idea if this all makes sense bit I'm old and I don't care.

IbogaProject

(3,645 posts)
6. A Novel treatment for PTSD is emerging
Fri Dec 8, 2023, 03:35 PM
Dec 2023

My Dad served in Vietnam. I was never eligible to serve as I've been an insulin dependent diabetic since 1982. He spent the whole year in the field, he felt it was better for his career that way and may have been to protect himself from his alcoholism too. I had a great math tutor in university in the 80s, he was a war vet and found his way to academic physics, this was a jump for him as he was from a poor background. The one other veteran I knew was my godfather who I became close to after he partially recovered from a stroke in his early 40s. He had stopped drinking with twelve steps but then was severely disabled. This one rule I was given was no questions about WW2. He was enlisted during 1944 he was battlefield promoted to officer. He was a POW and octor served 20 years retiring as a Colonel. So I was aware of the issues but none of the details, that generation just didn't share. I became a pacifist when I saw the look in my father's eyes when I asked him if he sot anyone, he had the ride in the helicopter out to a remote medic unit up on a hill that the VC had surrounded. He had to man the gun during those runs. He was just a medical administrator, basically like Colonel Potter from MASH, except he was in charge of everyone but the Doctors. A Doctor was in 'charge' but he just signed paperwork and stuck to being a doctor as much as he could.
So now I'm thrust into an emerging field of PTSD treatment and now pre-injury prophylactic treatments. The PTSD treatment findings are going to print by a Scientist out of Stanford studying the remarkable recovery for PTSD patients treated at a clinic in Mexico. Their MRI results show a relative improvement in brain age scale of 18 months on average. These were a cohort of special forces veterans with PTSD and substance use issues. So here we are going from treating those in recovery to now being dragged into current conflicts with this emergent prophylactic idea. I'm still not sure how I feel as being a pacifist but am reconciling it as it may help reduce PTSD and even lessen the severity of brain injuries.

Nanuke

(558 posts)
4. My dad served in WWII, Korea and Vietnam. Brothers enlisted to avoid the draft and Nam.
Fri Dec 8, 2023, 01:02 PM
Dec 2023

They returned home, used the GI Bill, and are now millionaires. When Dad was in Nam they were in Germany and El Paso.

democrank

(11,250 posts)
5. You teach with your down-to-earth stories....and you heal. Thank you.
Fri Dec 8, 2023, 01:37 PM
Dec 2023

When my sweetie….a Vietnam Vet….finally accepted that he was going to die because of Agent Orange, he opened up like I never thought possible. All of a sudden it was easier for him to cry, easier to hug, easier to admit to being scared.

He was from a very poor family in Massachusetts, a family that never had the extra money to travel. He told me that when he got drafted and landed in Vietnam, he almost didn’t understand where exactly he was. Never heard of Vietnam. Never been out of the state of Massachusetts and probably had never been 20 miles away from home in any direction.

He hated firecrackers and thunder, he startled easily and would never, ever sit with his back to a door.

I remember the last time he walked out of his workshop with tears running down his cheeks. He just that instant realized that he could no longer figure out how to read a tape measure. This man of incredible talent, knew how to use every tool, built things out of wood, metal, anything….with great precision. Agent Orange brain cancer. Worse than the other cancers he was dealing with.

People like my sweetie and you, Duncanpup, who have been in wars or around folks who have, nix the chest-beating and tell it like it is. We need that. Our young people need that. Keep talking. You help me more than you know and I’ll bet you help a whole lot of others.

Thank you~

Easterncedar

(3,520 posts)
8. True and good and real
Fri Dec 8, 2023, 06:16 PM
Dec 2023

Thanks for this. I just finished Eric Gansworth’s “Extra Indians”, which centers on a deeply moving and disturbing description of the experience of some Vietnam vets, in country and at home.

I recommend it to everyone.

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