Seniors
Related: About this forumA few things you may not have known:
Great Trivia
'A SHOT OF WHISKEY' - In the old west a .45 cartridge for a six-gun cost 12 cents, so did a glass of whiskey. If a cowhand was low on cash, he would often give the bartender a cartridge in exchange for a drink. This became known as a "shot" of whiskey.
BUYING THE FARM - This is synonymous with dying. During WW1 soldiers were given life insurance policies worth $5,000. This was about the price of an average farm so if you died you "bought the farm" for your survivors.
IRON CLAD CONTRACT - This came about from the ironclad ships of the Civil War. It meant something so strong it could not be broken.
RIFF RAFF - The Mississippi River was the main way of traveling from north to south. Riverboats carried passengers and freight but they were expensive so most people used rafts. Everything had the right of way over rafts which were considered cheap. The steering oar on the rafts was called a "riff" and this transposed into riff-raft, meaning low class.
COBWEB - The Old English word for spider" was "cob".
SHIP STATE ROOMS - Traveling by steamboat was considered the height of comfort. Passenger cabins on the boats were not numbered. Instead they were named after states. To this day cabins on ships are called staterooms.
SLEEP TIGHT- Early beds were made with a wooden frame. Ropes were tied across the frame in a crisscross pattern. A straw mattress was then put on top of the ropes. Over time the ropes stretched, causing the bed to sag. The owner would then tighten the ropes to get a better nights sleep.
SHOWBOAT - These were floating theatres built on a barge that was pushed by a steamboat. These played small towns along the Mississippi River. Unlike the boat shown in the movie "Showboat", these did not have an engine. They were gaudy and attention grabbing which is why we say someone who is being the life of the party is showboating".
OVER A BARREL - In the days before CPR, a drowning victim would be placed face down over a barrel and the barrel would be rolled back and forth in an effort to empty the lungs of water. It was rarely effective. If you are over a barrel, you are in deep trouble.
BARGE IN - Heavy freight was moved along the Mississippi in large barges pushed by steamboats. These were hard to control and would sometimes swing into piers or other boats. People would say they "barged in".
HOGWASH - Steamboats carried both people and animals. Since pigs smelled so bad they would be washed before being put on board. The mud and other filth that was washed off were considered useless hog wash".
CURFEW - The word "curfew" comes from the French phrase "couvre-feu", which means "cover the fire". It was used to describe the time of blowing out all lamps and candles. It was later adopted into Middle English as curfeu" which later became the modern "curfew". In the early American colonies homes had no real fireplaces so a fire was built in the center of the room. In order to make sure a fire did not get out of control during the night it was required that, by an agreed upon time, all fires would be covered with a clay pot called-a curfew".
BARRELS OF OIL - When the first oil wells were drilled, there was no provision for storing the liquid so they used water barrels. That is why, to this day, we speak of barrels of oil rather than gallons.
HOT OFF THE PRESS - As the paper goes through the rotary printing press friction causes it to heat up Therefore, if you grab the paper right off the press, its hot. The expression means to get immediate information.
I did not know any of these!
Hope you enjoy.
tblue37
(66,035 posts)ShazzieB
(18,756 posts)Citing a source would be helpful, too.
Just saying "some of these are not accurate" really doesn't carry any weight whatsoever.
Jim__
(14,466 posts)From snopes
Although the meme is of recent origin, Internet mentions of this alleged historical fact date to at least 2003. Significantly, however, we were unable to trace it back any further than that, nor could we find any credible support for the general claim that it was common to use ammunition as a substitute for hard currency in frontier drinking establishments.
Was the price of a single .45 six-gun cartridge equivalent to that of a shot of whiskey in the Old West, as claimed? It doesnt appear so. The 1891 edition of Chicago hardware dealer Hibbard, Spencer, Bartlett & Co.s General Catalog lists Smith & Wesson .45 cartridges at a price of $25 per thousand, or 2-1/2 cents per cartridge. For the price of a shot of whiskey, we consulted Kelly J. Dixons 2005 book Boomtown Saloons: Archaeology and History in Virginia City, which notes that the average cost of a measure of any drink was around two bits, or 25 cents (although the cost later dropped as competition increased when more Americans moved west). Using those figures as our base prices, one shot of whiskey would have cost the equivalent of 10 cartridges. Even allowing for price variations according to time and place, it appears highly doubtful a one-to-one correspondence between the price of a cartridge and the cost of a drink ever existed in the Old West.
But, it's still interesting to read.
Bucky
(55,334 posts)The price of buying cartridges by the thousand is going to be significantly lower than the average retail cost you'd get from your local gunsmith or general store. If a glass of whiskey was two bits, but the price fell after the railroads increased supply. Then the conversion scale of one .45 shell to a shot glass of hooch could easily be equivalent, basically in the 10-15 cents range.
That said, there are etymology theories that run back to the 1700s.
The most likely origin for the word (and unfortunately the most boring) is found deep in Old English. In Nathan Baileys 1721 compendium, An Universal Etymological English Dictionary, Bailey says shot referred to a Flagon which the Host gives to his Guest if they drink above a Shilling. A similar note in Baileys dictionary for ale-shot indicates a Reckoning or Part to be paid at an ale house, aka a tab for drinking all that ale. About 300 years of etymological evolution can explain the shrinking of those shots down to a single gulp and the disappearance of the reckoning sense of the word.
So Anglo-Saxons were shooting their ale, their descendants were doing so from shots, and generations later, drinkers all over the world are doing shots of Fireball between games of beer pong. History really is a beautiful thing.
tblue37
(66,035 posts)Someone has already handled shot of whiskey. State rooms on ships were called that to give them a sense of class and luxury, like state rooms in aristocratic mansions.
Over a barrel comes from tying a person over a barrel to beat them.
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whathehell
(29,815 posts)Thanks for posting.
Joinfortmill
(16,517 posts)DavidDvorkin
(19,906 posts)Not the real thing.
ShazzieB
(18,756 posts)A source or sources would be helpful, too.
A simple pronouncement that this is "folk etymology" really doesn't inform anyone of anything.
DavidDvorkin
(19,906 posts)For example, from the online Dictionary of Etymology:
riffraff (n.)
also riff-raff, late 15c., "persons of disreputable character or low degree," from earlier rif and raf (Anglo-French rif et raf) "one and all, everybody; every scrap, everything," also "sweepings, refuse, things of small value" (mid-14c.), from Old French rif et raf, from rifler "to spoil, strip" (see rifle (v.)). Second element from raffler "carry off," related to rafle "plundering," or from raffer "to snatch, to sweep together" (see raffle (n.)); the word presumably made more for suggestive half-rhyming alliteration than for sense.
The meaning "refuse, scum, or rabble of a community" is by 1540s. In 15c. collections of terms of association, a group of young men or boys was a raffle of knaves.
Bucky
(55,334 posts)The French pronunciation of this phrase would sound to an English person like "rrhu uh rhaw",
which in English would be transcribed as "le bluh bluh bluh"
spooky3
(36,266 posts)The mnemonic device to remember which consonants at the ends of words are pronounced is CaReFuL.
Names of people have different rules.
I think it would sound more like reef eh rahf.
DFW
(56,679 posts)I'm in France once a week for work and speak the language.
spooky3
(36,266 posts)DFW
(56,679 posts)Acheter au pif
To buy something on a whim, or just for the hell of it. "ash-TAY oh PEEF."
And yes, they sure do pronounce the "f."
spooky3
(36,266 posts)DFW
(56,679 posts)She seemed to know what she was looking for. But, it didn't even make the news in France that I saw.
Just idiot Republicans back in America making a big deal over it--THAT made the news, but only for a second. After a few centuries of their own idiot politicians, they can spot ours in less time time than it takes to say "oui."
Besides, the expression has no negative connotations at all in French to begin with.
Remember in 2003 when the French declined to join us in invading Iraq? In their canteen, the House Republicans replaced "French Fries" with "Freedom Fries," in order to insult the French. The thing is, what we call "French fries" are really a Belgian way of serving potatoes, and the French have been chiding us to stop calling them "French" fries," and properly call them "Belgian Fries," or just "frites." So, in an attempt to insult the French, the House Republicans did something the French had been requesting for decades. When they heard that it was meant as an insult, they just scratched their heads, once again getting confirmation of their opinion that many Americans have a screw loose.
whathehell
(29,815 posts)and provide an actual link.
DavidDvorkin
(19,906 posts)whathehell
(29,815 posts)of going out of one's way to baldly contradict someone without providing a link
DavidDvorkin
(19,906 posts)stateroom (n.)
also state-room, 1703, room reserved for ceremonial occasions; earlier (1650s) "a captain's cabin;" from room (n.) + state (n.1) in a sense also preserved in stately.
whathehell
(29,815 posts)Definition of stateroom
1 : cabin sense 1a(1)
2 : a private room on a railroad car with one or more berths and a toilet
First Known Use of stateroom
1660, in the meaning defined at sense 1
-----
In most instances, simply typing: [Word] etymology into Google will lead you to a researched etymology as well as identifying folk etymologies (like the ridiculous "pluck yew" story).
whathehell
(29,815 posts)Yes, I KNOW what a link is, but thanks.
DavidDvorkin
(19,906 posts)I only checked a few and found the real origins.
Martin68
(24,625 posts)unc70
(6,328 posts)The author Edna Ferber had worked on a showboat in the sounds of northeastern North Carolina. The setting was moved to the Mississippi because it was much better known by the general public.
intheflow
(28,966 posts)TigressDem
(5,125 posts)Mr.Bill
(24,813 posts)The ammo belts on the machine guns in WWII bombers were 27 feet long.
momta
(4,108 posts)Thanks!
George II
(67,782 posts)Mr.Bill
(24,813 posts)I can't even remember where I read or heard about the ammo belt, so I can't vouch for it's authenticity. Here's what Wikipedia says: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_whole_nine_yards
Grumpy Old Guy
(3,569 posts)Thanks for sharing.
lapfog_1
(30,214 posts)via steamship, you wanted a cabin that would stay cooler in the summertime... hence you wanted Port Outbound, Starboard Home.. or POSH.
TimeToGo
(1,385 posts)"by 1914 (1903 as push), a word of uncertain origin, but there is no evidence for the common derivation from an acronym of port outward, starboard home, . . ."
Generally, the simple explanation isn't correct.
NullTuples
(6,017 posts)To wit:
"More likely it is from slang posh "a dandy" (1890), from thieves' slang meaning "money" (1830), originally "coin of small value, halfpenny," possibly from Romany posh "half" [Barnhart]."
Can't get much simpler than documented early uses of the same word with a connected meaning used in a similar context.
TimeToGo
(1,385 posts)😎
Maybe I should have added simple and cute.
Jim__
(14,466 posts)mountain grammy
(27,313 posts)littlemissmartypants
(25,622 posts)mountain grammy
(27,313 posts)Heartstrings
(7,349 posts)mountain grammy
(27,313 posts)JPPaverage
(577 posts)So it's just been a great day all around. Thank you for enlightening us all.
appalachiablue
(42,956 posts)young girl, a female ancestor traveled by river on a raft playing the piano while heading to a new family home.
George II
(67,782 posts)If a seamstress wanted to sew a really fancy dress, she didn't purchase just three or six yards, she bought "the whole nine yards."
BUT, there's an alternate military explanation too. A machine gun belt was nine yards, so if a gunner emptied his gun he said he gave the enemy "the whole nine yards".
I prefer the first explanation, not sure the second is even true.
3auld6phart
(1,275 posts)An regulation Scots kilt can be up to nine yards
of material and damn heavy. If made of wool.
Great keeping the kidneys and back area warm.
3auld6phart
(1,275 posts)An regulation Scots kilt can be up to nine yards
of material and damn heavy. If made of wool.
Great keeping the kidneys and back area warm.
empedocles
(15,751 posts)NBachers
(18,155 posts)calimary
(84,419 posts)The others were new to me.
Thanks for posting this!
Learn something new every day.
marybourg
(13,193 posts)be an error. My DHs standard WWII policy was only $2000. By the time he died, more than 70 years later, it had increased through accrued dividends to $11,000.
littlemissmartypants
(25,622 posts)sop
(11,299 posts)"hot metal printing," not because the newsprint itself was hot when it came off the presses.
In "hot metal printing" molten lead was poured into a "Linotype Machine" which cast the molten lead into individual lines of type (hence the name of the machine). The lines of cast lead type were grouped together, inserted into the press, inked and used to imprint the pages.
The Jungle 1
(4,552 posts)I do not think it was friction that heated the paper. Pinting today uses an oven to dry the ink. Did they use ovens in the past. I bet they did. Now the paper goes through the oven and then around chill roles to cool.
sop
(11,299 posts)"This didn't originate as a phrase until the 20th century and means the most up-to-date news. The origin stems from the printing process called 'hot metal printing'. The Linotype machine (invented 1884) allowed printers to type on a keyboard. As they went along, the machine would cast the types right there out of molten metal (mostly lead)."
Over the last fifty years, hot metal printing has been replaced by newer processes, some of which use ink dryers in the presses. No doubt newsprint and other papers coming from the presses are warm to the touch, but the term "hot off the presses" originated in the days when molten lead was used.
The Jungle 1
(4,552 posts)I find this expression comes from the early 1900s and originated from newspaper printing.
The printing presses used in producing newspapers were very large and operated at a high temperature. Just as a copy or printed page is warm coming off a laser jet printer, the news coming off of these printers was literally hot. I have not been able to verify if they used heat set ink.
Heat set printing ink is made for the offset printing process. It is made specifically to deal with high speeds and a quick drying process that is accomplished by means of a heat set oven. I don't see how they could have had high speed printing without ovens.
The Linotype machine you refer to produced the lead type. It cooled and was set for printing. When the printing occurred the lead was already cool. The Linotype machines were still in use in the 60s our local paper had one. We went to see it on a Scout tour.
trof
(54,273 posts)That takes me back to my old newspapering days.
I can still smell the molten lead.
OilemFirchen
(7,164 posts)It was explained by a museum guide, describing each component of a reconstructed Colonial home.
The others are fascinating, even considering those with dubious histories.
Thanks!
I_UndergroundPanther
(12,947 posts)California Peggy.
Thanks,for teaching me something new.
twodogsbarking
(12,230 posts)Carrier created air conditioning to keep printing presses cool.
Thanks for the information.
flying_wahini
(8,026 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)....the details of each horse (owner, trainer, etc.) were put on a board nailed to a tree or fence at the track. If the horse couldn't run this was "scratched" off the board.
In Australia they call them "scratchings".
eppur_se_muova
(37,501 posts)"We've got him over a barrel now!" makes a lot more sense this way than as a treatment for drowning.
Marcuse
(8,025 posts)ratchiweenie
(7,933 posts)The floor was dirt. Only the wealthy had something other than dirt, hence the saying "dirt poor." The wealthy had slate floors that would get slippery in the winter when wet, so they spread thresh on the floor to help keep their footing. As the winter wore on, they kept adding more thresh until when you opened the door it would all start slipping outside. A piece of wood was placed in the entry way--hence, a "thresh hold."
ratchiweenie
(7,933 posts)England is old and small and they started running out of places to bury people. So they would dig up coffins and would take the bones to a "bone-house" and reuse the grave. When reopening these coffins, one out of 25 coffins were found to have scratch marks on the inside and they realized they had been burying people alive. So they thought they would tie a string on the wrist of the corpse, lead it through the coffin and up through the ground and tie it to a bell. Someone would have to sit out in the graveyard all night (the "graveyard shift" to listen for the bell; thus, someone could be "saved by the bell" or was considered a "dead ringer."
I have no idea if any of these are correct. My aunt sent me lots of these years ago and I just love them.
BobTheSubgenius
(11,796 posts)Thank you so much, CP!
lunatica
(53,410 posts)Thank you California Peggy!
Martin68
(24,625 posts)Snopes rates the Old West theory "false":
The earliest known usage of shot in the sense of a measure of liquor appeared in the autobiography of the Rev. Oliver Heywood (1630-1702), in which we find the phrase their vain way of drinking shots. Unfortunately for the trading-cartridges-for-shots theory, the usage predates the time period of the Old West (which, by convention, was roughly 1850 to 1900) by some 150 years.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/shot-whiskey-origin/
DFW
(56,679 posts)There are two French words of Slavic origin that have since gone beyond their borders.
There is the Russian word for "quick" which the French then used for a place that offered a quick meal. "Quick" in Russian is "бистро," or "bistro."
Then there is that odd necktie that Croatians used to wear that fascinated the French. The Croatian word for "Croatian" is "Hrvatski," and you pronounce the "H" strongly. Since you don't pronounce the "H" at all in French, their ears perceived it as "Cravate." Croatian men started wearing them in the 1500s, but the name was adopted into French when Napoléon absorbed two Croatian regiments into his army.