African American
Related: About this forumJust realized something about Prince
I'd never thought of him as "black," just as a creative genius. Black would be way down the list of descriptors if someone from another planet asked me to describe him. Same thing with Michael Jackson or Samuel L. Jackson.
But now I'm wondering if that's a good thing or a bad thing.
I'm a gay white guy, and sorry if my posting here is an invasion, I just thought I'd ask the folks who know more directly. I've dated guys of color and we've been intimate, but I can't know the realities of someone else's experiences and life. I can't know what it's like being a kid and hearing the n-word slung at you the first time and then the horror that comes from understanding what it means, or learning why you should rightfully be wary of the police while others of us were told we could always run to them and trust them.
Again,sorry if I tread in a place I shouldn't, but dammit, I'm so sick of the divide that's been created between people who should just be people and when I was a kid I used to get a tan every summer because I liked yours. Except you don't have tan lines (I know, I've checked.).
FrenchieCat
(68,868 posts)and became mainstream due to the fact that his music was a mixture of Rock, Blues, R&B, Funk and pop....and likewise for his physical appeal, meaning that all races could find something in his music and appearance to like. He was also of a genre reminiscent of Jimmi Hendrix, David Bowie, Mick Jagger, Little Richard, Elvis Presley, and James Brown all rolled up into one.
He was a Chameleon in terms of his appearance, and was light skinned enough that one might forget (a la Beonce) his Blackness (especially White folks).....considering his varying hairstyles, and may have had some work done over the years.
Evidently, to some degree he played into this criss-cross image he created, and tended to have the "girl" in most of his videos and movies appear of a somewhat neutral race.....a la Apollonia, Vanity, his wife Mayte (star dancer and his Girl in many of his videos)....and to a degree, Sheila E....but appears to have mentored the career of many Black and White acts as well.
He portrayed himself as bi-racial in Purple Rain, which further confused some....
Even in terms of his sexuality, he was even moreso androgynous than David Bowie or Michael Jackson, and certainly encouraged the notion of ambiguity without specifity. Most men most likely chose to believe him to be most likely Gay, while many more women than not believed him to be straight.....and to the end, one can only speculate, which is most likely what he preferred. as a Jehovah Witness and due to his multiple girlfriends and wives, one could more believe that he was a straight man who didn't mind playing into his femininity...or perhaps he was both?
Prince's Father
Prince's Mother on the right
Family Photo
Prince's Wives - He had a son by his first wife (on the left), who died 7 days after birth due to Pfeiffer syndrome
Prince as a young teen before he was famous....
xfundy
(5,105 posts)He blended everything, just as Elvis and the Beatles stole music styles created by people of color. But I'm wondering if it's negative that I'd not describe him as black within the first few words of a description of him. On the one hand, there's the "colorblind" aspect, but on the other, does that disrespect something that's in his essence?
FrenchieCat
(68,868 posts)The kind of natural soul that he displayed as a singer, dancer, and musician cannot be denied,
regardless of how he is described.....but he would still be Black, whether you personally chose
to leave that out as part of your description of him or not....
It is my opinion that most folks actually are aware that he was a Black man....
wildeyed
(11,243 posts)with a black person, we often "stop seeing color". Most of us live in a predominantly white world so we are aware of skin tone when it differs from what we are accustomed to. But when we know someone, we notice it less or not at all. They just become themselves, an individual. And that is great. But what I have noticed, many of us (meaning white) still see negative stereotype (consciously or unconsciously) when we see or meet new black people, but credit the black people we know and respect to the general culture column that is by default white. So it can become a subtle form of appropriation. If we like it, we "don't see color" so we can hold onto negative stereotypes. To see Prince as a black man is harder because it makes us (whites) challenge our stereotypes about what a blackness IS.
My senile, racist FIL demonstrated this very well the other day.... We were talking about his neighbors before he went to assisted living. According to him, They were really nice, not like most Mexicans. Pretty sure they are the *only* Mexicans he knows But for him, their good qualities are now in the white default column and he can maintain his racist attitudes toward other Mexicans.
Not saying you are like that at all, or that you stereotype anyone, just why it is important to acknowledge his race.
And as Frenchie points out, he was also light skinned. Much of his music is ABOUT oneness, love and not being divided. He was a spiritual guy.
Music and musicians are one of the BEST ways to forget about race. I just found out that Aretha Franklin's backup band on her breakout album were a bunch of white teenagers and it was recorded in segregated Alabama. Whatever. Those guys were funky. And, of course, Stax Records in Memphis was integrated before segregation was outlawed. Musical genius D'Angelo's regular bass player is a white guy from Scotland named Pino Palladino. D'Angelo says he understands complex R&B rhythm better than nearly anyone on the planet. Look at videos of early James Brown concerts. there are always a few white people in the predominantly black audiences. They are loving the music, but it is also in your face black art and performance. White people can be there and appreciate but there is no getting around the blackness. So historically, there has always been mixing. But it is also important to see the race, who the real geniuses and leaders are, otherwise, it becomes appropriation where we erase the blackness and just make the achievement part of the default culture. Like what happened to rock and roll when they erased all the black artists and made it a white art form.
I dunno if I am saying this right. It's complicated.
Digital Puppy
(496 posts)You have really brought up some excellent examples of not only recognizing Blackness (or "whatever-ness" in art, but why there is nothing wrong with that recognition.
IMO, there was nothing at all wrong with the OP and I appreciate that they brought their question to this forum.
xfundy
(5,105 posts)You don't look French.
I've always wanted to say that.
FrenchieCat
(68,868 posts)Was trying to be funny.
Lighten up, maybe?
I was talking about my own stream of consciousness, not trying to do anything else. I appreciate all peoples and wish the fuck that we'd all just fuck each other so we're all brown and it wouldn't matter.
FrenchieCat
(68,868 posts)I look French and Black enough, but more than French or Black...I look like a cat.
Number23
(24,544 posts)It shouldn't matter anyway. Right now.
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)💜
wildeyed
(11,243 posts)Great post.
Number23
(24,544 posts)He looks so sweet and damn near dorky there. Absolutely precious
SangeMele
(2 posts)that first picture is of Prince's (1/2 Sister) and her mother. Not Prince's mother. John Nelson was married to another woman before marrying Prince's mother
One thing I noticed over his whole life was, Prince had a strong identify with women. He felt comfortable expressing himself freely with women. How he identified inside also says a lot about the women he was close to and more importantly those he dated/married.
Which were 95% 'mixed' women.
Both of his parents also exclusively married/dated other 'mixed' people.
Kind of Blue
(8,709 posts)To me, you, as a white guy, describing him to someone from another planet as just a creative genius, is ascribing to a colorblind society that I do not subscribe to. I find nothing wrong in telling an alien wanting to know about Prince that he was a genius and black, different in appearance from you. I think not to include his ethnicity is a nice way of whitewashing him since his descriptors would come from you, whereas I find value in our mix of cultures and would include it.
I find it fascinating and sad, and makes wonder that since Prince is certified creative genius and his ethncitiy is way down on your list in our new "colorblind" society, how quickly a movie about him will cast a white actor or closer in appearance to white to portray him, as was done to Michael Jackson, Dr. King, Nina Simone. It makes me wonder, too, how many whites are eager to remove successful PoC from their ethnicity - I don't see color - but let that successful PoC do something or is perceived to do something wrong, how swift the blackwashing appears - I'm remembering the Time and Newsweek covers of OJ Simpson, Trayvon Martin - a young pilot/astronaut enthusiast who went to space camps, Micheal Brown - bound for college; an incident in my own family that's been put to rest.
Terence McKenna said, "You could almost say that nature abhors habit, and so it seeks the novel by producing various kinds of phenomena at every level in biology, chemistry and society." So to me it would be a missed teachable-moment for the alien not to know that on our planet, nature goes crazy producing thousands, if not millions, of different types of one thing.
JustAnotherGen
(33,785 posts)Thank you for this!
Kind of Blue
(8,709 posts)La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)because it helps you recognize your own biases.
now, obvi i cannot tell you about your biases, but i have found that you should not pretend race doesn't exist in a society where so much is determined by race. it leads you to be blind to the oppression of people by race.
FrenchieCat
(68,868 posts)kwassa
(23,340 posts)Just thought I would point that out. The sun is the sun, and has the same effect on all human skin.
I always thought of Prince as black, and I am a white guy. Culturally, his biggest influences are the black funk artists that preceded him, though white rock has had a major influence as well.
Being black is a societal assignment, not a single visual appearance. It is a social convention, based on history, not science.
Because of that assignment, black people see it immediately where whites have the luxury of not noticing race.
Kind of Blue
(8,709 posts)Hi there, this is coming from a mixed dude and a HUGE Prince fan, his influences big and small ran the gamut.
The sole biggest Funk artist that influenced him was Sly & the Family Stone (and as we know sly had a multiethnic band) and another influence Grand Funk Railroad(non black group)
James Browns stage control-style was the bigger influence than the actually music. But Prince was mostly an ax man. We did not see Prince pull that kind of stage showmanship into the live act until around 1984/85 via Baby I'm A Star and Possessed. Then songs like the 1986 Parade B side: Love or Money, Sign o the Times 1987 Housequake etc
One of Prince BIGGEST influences and friend who colored the foundations of Prince's music was Joni Mitchell.
Other people that were big influences from music, style, expression: Santana, Steve Wonder, David Bowie, Marvin Gaye, Charlie Chaplin, Chaka Khan, the Rolling Stones, Little Richard, Led Zeppelin, Mozart
And Chris Moon(British), who worked with Prince early in the 1977-1979 period. Check out their history. The co-wrote Soft & Wet. And Chris had a big part in Prince understand mixing Spirituality & Sexuality.
"The rockabilly obsession was sparked by seeing the Stray Cats in London, before they came back to the States and broke. We were all blown away with them - the look, Brian Setzer's amazing sound, just the sheer authenticity of it. We started wearing pompadours immediately!" -Dez Dickerson (guitarist 4 the noituloveR)
Funk Folk Rockabilly have been the 3 constants in Prince's music from start 2 finish.
Add in also movies: Idol Maker, Blade Runner, Amadeus & 1940s film and starlets
Not to mention the overall landscape of Minneapolis Minnesota
1950s 'Black' culture style, Pimps, Hippies, Italian/Italian-American Mafioso & Valentino, New Wave & of course his latter Jehovah's Witness Kingdom Hall, were all 'social-cultures' that he drew long lasting influences from.
1985 Interview
It was obvious from the Purple Rain tour that, with the extended jams on some of these songs, you were paying tribute to James Brown. Would you agree? Who, besides James Brown, were your major musical inspirations and influences? Obviously you were thinking of Hendrix, Clinton and Sly Stone.
Prince:James Brown played a big influence in my style. When I was about 10 years old, my stepdad put me on stage with him, and I danced a little bit until the bodyguard took me off. The reason I liked James Brown so much is that, on my way out, I saw some of the finest dancing girls I ever seen in my life. And I think, in that respect, he influenced me by his control over his group. Another big influence was Joni Mitchell. She taught me a lot about color and sound, and to her, I'm very grateful.
In your Rolling Stone interview, you said you were surprised by so many people comparing you to Hendrix because you've always been more into Santana than Hendrix as a guitarist.
Prince: A lot has to do with the color of my skin, and that's not where it's at. It really isn't. Hendrix is very good. Fact. There will never be another one like him, and it would be a pity to try. I strive for originality in my work, and hopefully, it'll be perceived that way.
Rolling Stone Mag 1985
How do you feel about people calling the record "psychedelic"?
PrinceI don't mind that, because that was the only period in recent history that delivered songs and colors. Led Zeppelin, for example, would make you feel differently on each song.
What do you think about the comparisons between you and Jimi Hendrix?
Prince:If they really listened to my stuff, they'd hear more of a Santana influence than Jimi Hendrix. Hendrix played more blues; Santana played prettier. You can't compare people, you really can't, unless someone is blatantly trying to rip somebody off. And you really can't tell that unless you play the songs.
Are there any current groups you listen to a lot or learn from?
Prince: Naah. The last album I loved all the way through was [Joni Mitchell's] The Hissing of Summer Lawns. I respect people's success, but I don't like a lot of popular music. I never did. I like more of the things I heard when I was little. Today, people don't write songs; they're a lot of sounds, a lot of repetition. That happened when producers took over, and that's why there are no more [live] acts. There's no box office anymore. The producers took over, and now no one wants to see these bands.
Black as a social assignment came about during the 1970s Black Power Movement. Prior to the people assigned as 'Colored' were referred to as Negro or Mulatto. For most of America's history the ''black' African' was never considered the same as the 'Mulatto'.
But after it all many people of clear mixture may identify one way openly so they don't get any backlash for 'being ashamed of their 'blackness'', and identify another way inside or privately.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)It's just lovely. Was so sad to know he'd been struggling in pain. Saw him using a cane at an after party and it never occurred to me he might need it after that amazing show.
Kind of Blue
(8,709 posts)this was too fun, knowing good and well some people will start trying to take away or minimize Prince's blackness, that's almost like clockwork.
15 Times Prince Was The Blackest Most Magical Man On Earth
http://bossip.com/1305892/15-times-prince-was-the-blackest-most-magical-man-on-earth/11/