each one, to this point, I could have written every word, as it is spot on to where I am. Please read the previous two, as well.

Thank you!

They reflect where I am, and what I have written, with respect to "progressives".

Whoa! Just . . .


http://pleasecutthecrap.com/tilting-at-the-third-way-windmill/

Last edited Thu Jun 30, 2016, 11:21 AM - Edit history (1)

to this Black man, while posting in the African-American Group.

Zero self-awareness.

ETA: Oh Yeah ... Welcome back! Or, rather ... Bah Bye!

remind me of what some posters on this site have been posting.

I've been pretty much called just about everything Shook's been called, and it's always baffled me when that name-calling - totally without basis in truth - was directed at me from fellow Liberals. It had gotten so bad that I had to leave DU for a year or two just to not be crucified for supporting President Obama and understanding why he had to make choices that wasn't as far-left as many here would like.

Yes, as Deaniac (former DUer) had said looooong long ago, he's a pragmatic progressive, but so am I. It's why I'm a Democrat, not a Greenie or a Socialist, but a Democrat. It's why the Democratic Party is the only Party strong enough and big enough to defeat the well-funded Republican Party. It just tells me we're more popular, more powerful, more organized, and willing to move forward pragmatically than burn the bridges to get our way than the more leftist Parties. It's why we've survived so long.

Thanks again for the excellent find and for sharing it with us!

Bookmarked for future reference.

Oh, and edited to add:


Just cuz it's so dang CUTE.

It's as if the writer has been living in my mind! Only he expresses himself much better. Thanks so much for posting the initial link and, thanks to you, I have bookmarked this blog and have become a Milt Shook fan. I'll be reading it from now on.

From this rant at the same blog: http://pleasecutthecrap.com/while-far-lefties-were-sleeping/

and in the rant he distorts the debate over John Lewis.

Shook writes that the BB's (Bernie Backers) criticized Lewis
for backing Hillary; but the source he uses is about Lewis'
initial dismissal of Bernie's civil rights record. (For which
Lewis later apologized, as well he should have.)

let's all pretend it was about Bernie's (45+ year old) civil rights record. It'll fit the living in a fantasy world description well!

Lewis said . ." he had not meant to express doubt “that Senator Sanders participated in the civil rights movement, neither was I attempting to disparage his activism”. (Guardian)

I'm a huge Lewis fan, and always will be. Our Vets For Peace Golden Rule project honors sailors and freedom riders whom Lewis credits with saving his life. (Bert Bigelow)

Thanks for helping to keep this civil . .

And so true. It lays out all of the frustration I have felt about the "left" turning on Pres Obama the way they did.

their penchant for magical thinking and their reaction(s) when others don't follow suit.

But then, I read where a significant segment of the population includes lottery winnings, as a part (or all) of their retirement planning.

About the kind of things that were mentioned in the link in the OP.

Folks around here don't seem to understand the limitations placed on the executive branch when congress is controlled by the opposition party.

The thing that President Obama has done that has most impressed me, is that he was able to maintain his dignity in the face of overwhelming opposition.

As much respect as I have for Jimmy Carter, if he could have stayed as cool and collected, he would have been reelected in 1980. Carter looked worn out, and it was obvious that 2012 was supposed to be a repeat of that election in the republican playbook.

Overall Obama has done an excellent job given the mess that Dubya left for him to clean up.

People don't seem to understand that it takes a while to break the government, and it takes a while to fix it. When the republicans took over in 2010, I thought democrats were done for, but that doesn't appear to be the case. In fact, it looks more like the opposite.

... "demand" anything from the person who has all of that.

Is always a good read.

Bookmarking to read all 3 when I get back

Thanks~

Freshwest!

Thanks for outing yourself as NOT progressive, as that explains a lot.

Are Progressives on the correct side of the issue 90-95% of the time? Yes.

I like those odds, so I'm happily remaining Progressive. So good luck with your
Progressive-bashing ... you'll need it.

rather, it's about HOW you relate to those issues, in order to get them accomplished. And more, I haven't had any (few) problems with the progressives I have met in real life, as none (few) have exhibited any of the traits described above.

But then, I suspect ... as the OPs observe ... those progressives would be called everything, but ... if they where to post on line.

I relate to it thusly: Hell No! No Way.

without the hyperbole that would have it being the end of American labor, as we know it.

The TPP will be no where near as good as it proponents say; nor, as bad as its detractors predict ... and we will not know, one way or the other, for maybe 15 years.

I would not expect anything but more of the same from the TPP.

is this where we bring back the old term "liberal?"

or maybe "Retro-Liberal" (FDR) since "Neo-Liberal" is already spoken for.

But YMMV.

are you saying that African-Americans are more racist than white progressives ... by far?

If so, perhaps you should learn what "Racism" is ... and not what the collector of popular parlance, Webster's says it is; trying what the social scientists and anti-racist say about it.

Perhaps your moderators should ask that its threads do not appear on the front page.

I've never "jumped into the African American group".

But it does jump out at me occasionally.

If you want it - YOU ask Skinner.

And you jumped in and called blacks racist.

Don't come back. Do what I've done to the gun rights, socialists, men's groups etc etc - put us on block.

My first instinct is never to alert. I asked the question - you dodged, deflected, and deferred in response.

By not clarifying you are doubling down.

Now go.

I suggest you read the headers in GD before you post. It is clear which group it is posted in.

Thanks. I host HC and BOG.

Reading simple and obvious headers at the top of a thread page must be so very difficult. perhaps you should ask they become flashing neon lights with loud sirens so that the mentally undisciplined do not "accidentally" click on a link.

But, I also see that during the primaries, Hillary supporters had that "it's her turn" , we need a woman in the wh attitude. I didn't care that Obama was black, there were black repubs running and I would never vote for them. There has to be more substance than they are in a minority group lets vote them in. This sounds more like bernie supporter bashing on the dl. He was not the messiah, but he did speak to my issues and to me, they are the most important thing.

My issues may not matter to you but they are where i am lead to vote. But, if you vote for her because she is a her-not because she champions your issues-you are going to be sorely disappointed when she goes against your interests with say tpp or war or the environment. See I knew Obama had warts and I supported him warts and all. I will vote for Hillary but I don't support her warts and all. I will vote a straight d ticket. I don't see myself hustling for votes.
I do believe as dems we should have similar issues. I won't be surprised when my issues are ignored.

So of course your issues are different than mine.

You do you.

I'm also going to be just out for myself.

Why is that so shocking to Democratic Party members to understand .

What else is in that crystal ball? Please do tell this O'Malley supporter. My financial interests will never be represented by the Democratic party. Start there.

continue to vote against them.

My interest - I make enough each year that I stop paying at the end of Q2 into SSDI.

My stake - will my targeted monthly payments be there when I'm older?

Will Fed Gov allow me to keep the current targeted monthly return - if they stop the stupid practice of stopping the collection at $118,500?

Will Fed Gov then make a targeted effort to make up the unfair and unequal wages our senior (of all races) women made?


I need DETAILS. See out there - someone is asking in ALL CAPS for explicit reasons as to why we wouldn't trust the dominant culture to vote these concepts into reality with an equal application to all. I need specific ways that previously ignored individuals will get their just rewards in this country.


I'm trying to wrap my head around - a bunch of people who fucked America up (that's all I've read, heard seen from the far left and far right in this country for about three years) -

Asking me to trust them to not fuck up again.

That's like asking me to hire a bank robber to be a bank teller. Only a fool would believe.

So what are my interests -

Black.
Affluent.
Work in Corporate America.
Married to a foreigner so now have dual citizenship (need the ability to move freely among countries).


What are you asking me to vote for? What are my interests?

If you think that the establishment you are voting for is going to try to make everyone pay their fair share you are mistaken. Though you are affluent, if you have kids-they are still black. if you have sons they are in danger. You are not as affluent as the top 10% and it is their issues being met by the establishment in each party. Do you want clean air to breathe and water to drink-no matter what country you are in? Do you want to know whats in your food and where it comes from? i want toys and cars to be safe. If any of these are your concern, then you are voting against your interests.

I'm actually a democratic party member for these reasons

Environment
Race
Education
Gender/GLBT



We are in the top 5%.

k/r/r/r/r/r/r/r/r/r/r/r/r/r/r/r

Pretty much encapsulates my feelings in general that were wildly reinforced throughout the primary, especially here.

Let me start off by saying I am white as hell. Not only am I white, I'm a native Southerner. Not only Southern but Mississippi-Louisiana Southern, raised there in the last half of the last century when things were, shall we say, cataclysmic. Why I was always a liberal I do not know. I'm the only one in the family. But the other half of that insane dynamic is that you do not have the bubble from which you proclaim what would be amazing and ideal and wonderful for just every damn body because, well, aren't we all the same and aren't we all just like me?

No, we are not all the same. And some of us have fought one another and loved one another and been stuck with one another and had to work things out in ways that leave everybody beat up and hurting, and trying to figure out what we have done to one another and what we can bear doing in the future.

Frankly I was impressed that President Obama, who seems to have had a foot in so many worlds that he couldn't immerse in just one, could stand all the things we all projected onto him and stay sane. The man is remarkable as hell. But he's got all the constraints of having to actually FIGHT the fights that others can believe they'd surely do more purely or nobly or with more of exactly what they profess to hate, the blinders of ideology. You know, those people who have not had to live intimately with people they disagree with, and sometimes hate. And the alternative isn't NO ideology, as the idealists seem to believe. It's pragmatism. It's recognizing that you might hate a whole lot of things that people say and do but you have to live with those people unless you're willing to kill them or negate their rights, and you have to learn to get along in ways that advance everyone a few steps rather than grabbing them by the balls and being just sure their hearts and minds will follow. Cute phrase, don't work.

So, Hillary. Hillary is a pragmatist like I'm a pragmatist and a liberal like I'm a liberal. The crazy kicker is that I love those family members whose ways of thinking and acting have never been like my own, and I don't want to subjugate them any more than I want to subjugate the people they DO want to. In a way it's more liberal. Liberal isn't just "us." It's everyone. It's having good will and hopeful intentions toward people who make you nuts and recognizing that even when you have to take a firm stand and say "Oh HELL no" to some of the things they want to do, doing it by force without consideration makes you a dictator in the name of liberalism.

This writer is going on my bookmark folder.

I've stopped identifying as progressive. The term is too nebulous. And it tends to cover too many people who pull the 'more progressive than thou' card, without paying attention to the social changes that are moving us forward.

It's more than a year old.

I may need a better tinfoil hat since he seems to have been reading my mind.

From rant 2 "Neoliberalism, My Ass"

in the minds of people like this, someone who says all the right things IS progressive, while those who make actual “progress” don’t qualify

Thank you 1SBM

Left to me is much worse, precisely because they DON'T think it exists. That form of psychological racism is much more insidious than the overt or explicit racism that we often see on the political right.

It's about ego and virtue signaling to your club and showing off, not actually helping people.

must read.......interesting opinion(s) of our end of the poitical spectrum.