I don't think that it's ever time to stop talking about it.

And I understand the sister's sentiments. Knowing how to deal with someone who wears their hatred on their sleeves, is less stressful than the subterfuge type hatred, in which you are never really quite sure how to deal with it.

I only have hope that we work this out, and that it gets better to a point where they, the racist, will no longer be considered polite company.

Last edited Sun Jul 17, 2016, 02:40 AM - Edit history (1)

But one place where I think part of the miscommunication comes from.

the author states "White people do not think in terms of "we." White people have the privilege to interact with the social and political structures of our society as individuals. You are “you,” I am “one of them.” Whites are often not directly affected by racial oppression even in their own community, so what does not affect them locally has little chance of affecting them regionally or nationally. They have no need, nor often any real desire, to think in terms of a group...."

And they are right. *BUT* equally IF one wishes to reach white people one has to recognize how WE think. any time you want to influence a target audience you need to proclaim and explain in THEIR terms.

Granting that, as a white person, it's indeed easier to NOT consider oneself part of a group- when writer after writer lumps ALL whites together as racist, even the whites who have done everything they can (almost always including confronting racist friends and family members, often at great emotional cost) what good does it do? If upi ;ump me in with my vilest relatives or acquaintances what is the point?

Protest and confrontation work for raising awareness; some people have to be shaken out of their bubble, but once you have their attention to continue to insult and belittle them is stupid and worse unproductive.

The author is right; I *DON'T* think of myself as part of a group; and anyone, black, white, liberal, conservative who insists on lumping me in as part of one, "all you people" is an idiot.

And thanks again for the article cited in your OP. I think the author has an incredible insight into something very basic and powerful in the difference in how blacks and whites see certain events.

at the very least she deserves a Medal of Freedom. Or a Nobel.

I have to disagree. Speaking as a white man, we have to make ourselves see the realities that African Americans in this country face, and I don't think it can be explained in our terms. Maybe I am wrong, but that is how I see it.

Last edited Sun Jul 17, 2016, 11:48 AM - Edit history (2)

Overall, I think you are pretty much right. It all depends on the goals.

Raising consciousness, which needs to happen first, and really, it's sad that it has taken oh, 150 years or so for a lot of white folks to realize that what blacks have been saying about racism might be actually true, but social media and camera video make it pretty much impossible now, thankfully, for any other than the most overt and committed racist to deny the disparate treatment people off color receive at the hands of the police. For that the language and images of the oppressed are indeed powerful.

But changing policy- laws, rules, and regulations- to actually get stuff changed, be it police training and procedures, sentencing guidelines, economic policies,-those 'powers that be' speak a different language and work in a different paradigm, getting the people who control that machine to do the right thing is a different process, I think. As your basic social work support technician and longtime progressive I 'get' where BLM is coming from and why the movement needs to confront the comfortable in the way it does. But moving the folks with actual power, and their constituents (usually those with economic and institutional power, not mere voters or protesters), or even the mass of white folks who aren't really effected by either protests or racial disparaties language that lumps all white folks together is not helpful even if we both can understand why people in rage, pain and danger might be just a wee bit strident and confrontational...

Anyway, my point is that yes, the author is right that there is often a lack of the sense of 'that could have been me' WRT white folks that makes it hard for them to understand why blacks in Oakland might react so strongly to police killings in another city; but that doesn't mean it's productive to address white folks as if they were a monolithic block and indeed the opposite, the author give us a valuable insight into how to possibly make clarification of communication easier and more effective.

they are in reality denying the existence of what was being said. If someone says "white people are racist" and you say "not me...I don't do any of that racist stuff" you are making it about "me" and you are changing the conversation from what the person wanted to talk about. There is a very apt saying: "if they aren't talking about you then they aren't talking about you." If you don't believe that you are a racist, then clearly they are talking about someone else. For effective communication, you have to accept the conversation that they want to have and not change it to be about something else.

150 years of the powers that be and the mass of white people changing the conversation to something that they are more comfortable with hasn't solved the problems. Maybe it is time that we had the conversation that black people want and need us to have.

And imo, any white person who states categorically that they are not a racist is in denial. Much racism (and sexism and bigotry) is subtle. I don't accept that we white people are capable of identifying and eliminating every single trace of it. If we would stop the defensive "but not all white people" and not shut our minds to what follows, we would all learn something. Further, it would be respectful, something too often lacking.

none I disagree with, again, only discussing *tactics*, I remember a quote that " 'White Privilege' *IS* getting to decide what 'white privelege' is. But it's annoying (first world crisis here ) when someone who has understood the issue for 20+ years and just wants to help is told to STFU, you're white, you can't understand".

There was an interesting article askingn white people to *NOT* come to BLM events unless asked. I understand, I know several 'culture vultures' who are more interested in having a selfie at a BLM protest than actually doing shit; as a property owning middle aged middle class white guy I'm not going to insult someone by pretending I can emphasize, even if I've been fucking with the sstem for 40 years.


An interesting duicussional aside; A professor in a class I was taking was taling about 'privilege', and pointed to me, as I'm six foot, in pretty good shape white bald head, as an example of 'large male' privilege". It wa funny (she is a Latina female). And it made me think yeah, as a 195 pound Male I have 'priveleges ("Pribvate Law&quot . Same thing with being white. What drives me left is my dad telling me that his father remembered signs saying "Help Wanted, - no dogs or Irish need apply", so my upbringing was "The only color that matters in America is GREEN

Again, great original article. Very thought provoking.

and not talk race with anyone who replies to me like I don't know what I'm talking about.

What is wrong with some soul searching?

Nothing is more embarrassing than white people claiming to be the victims of racism.

there's the entire history of this country. When have white people not had the right to vote (well, women didn't for a while - are you a male victim of sexism too?).

Yeah, even white men had to create a supergroup of special white men good enough to vote. But non property owning white men were the first ones to get it.

So I got the benefit, being of a younger generation. So white men of today don't get to claim they did anything that their forbears did in days when they were the only ones to have the right to try Democracy or anything else.

a lot of attention, and from some who didn't get it until they read this.

I have trouble discussing race with PoC because I thought racism was on its last legs and then we get every racist thing that's happened since the President was elected, which has been a terrible slap of reality. Over and over and over. I haven't know what to say especially since the Church shooting and all the police shootings of unarmed, complying, innocent black citizens.

It is also wrong to think that all white people in America are racist or do not also complain about racism.

We have a duty to stand up against bigotry. Things don't change by being silent.