i must have missed the latest drama so i can't comment on that.

but i can say that i'm much more aware and informed about racism and white privilege thanks to links and posts provided by you (ok, and a few others).

as much as i have always felt myself to be a strong ally, i've come to realize that this is one area where i have suffered from the dunning-kruger effect -- i overestimated myself in this area because i didn't know enough.

you've helped open my eyes to my role in the whole rotten machine and given me pause for thought. i'm not yet there in terms of how can i change my life to make the machine something better for everyone, but greater awareness is the first step.

thank you for that and welcome back.

where a anti-racism trainer said, what I consider, a most profound and self-aware statement, that I have heard ... ever. She was telling a story about her entry into the diversity/anti-racist area. She stated that shortly after she worked in the field awhile, she, suddenly, became aware that she was completely and utterly unqualified for her position, precisely because she thought she understood ... and in her understanding, stopped seeking to understand, but rather, used her level of understanding to answer every question, even her own.

Today, for example, I learned about the dunning-kruger effect, something I was aware existed, but didn't know there was a name for!

to you......

We've got your back.

then having them help expose the fronting!

but I always read, appreciate and kick most of what you post.

I can't "expose" racism from your unique POV, but I CAN listen to and attempt to internalize what you and other AAs are trying to teach us about "systemic" bias and bigotry.

Sometimes the my commiserate for validation and I'm like Nope!

We (progressive) white people want to decry racism, we want to righteously blog about it, write scathing OP's about it, want to root institutional racism out when it comes to criminal justice, although we seem distinctly less enthuthastic when it comes to the many successful programs using affirmative action. We are also less than enthusiastic about discussing reparations, and we are downright mulish when it comes to self-examinination. Some of us believe all lives matter and the way they matter is exactly the same. Some of us roll our eyes at the term privilege, because, geez, we are just so tired of hearing about it, and we can walk away from thinking about our privilege any time we choose

We like the idea of institional racism, but dislike the science of the sociology of racism. How it insidiously affects all areas, all aspects of whiteness. In fact, the concept of whiteness created racism, at least modern, western racism. We participate in whiteness everyday of our lives, not wanting to understand. It's a lot of work. Poor us.


I googled "practicing whiteness" and found this older tumbler blog which describes what I mean ever so much better

whites educating whites (so POC don't have to)

And K n R 1SBM's post.

You know, I completely agree with you. You know why? Not everyone is going to have the benefit, such as I have, of having had black friends over the years who've educated me. Without that, I'm quite sure some of my views would NOT be the same as they are today.

like this one and the HRC one and others. They are supposed to be safe place for members of the group to express opinions and offer support to other members. But when others visit and decided to alert and the jury - not realizing that the post was in a safe place - agree, this is what you have.

I asked Skinner, and he refused, to give hosts of these groups more leeway to restore posting privileges and hidden posts. His reply was that he did not want other DUers being bashed in these groups. But it was not about DUers, it is about opinions and observations.

I am not a frequent visitor here, rarely, in fact, but I appreciate your stand.

it is safe for me (or any African-American) to post anything, with respect to race matters, that is not apologia and feel good stuff ... which is surprising, considering the number of progressives that claim DU as a home?

Ahahaha. Do you really think I'm that dumb? Hell, I'm not a Republican!

But as a white man, a do feel an urge to steal the issue of racism from you and claim I am the real victim. You know, white men have had it pretty tough in this country. Like when that guy took away our right to own slaves. Owning slaves was a big economic advantage. Taking them away was a real hardship to all the slaveowning class. (Apologies to Louis C.K., from whom I stole this joke.)

Caution or saying what u feel are the only choices you have. Good luck my friend!

It's pretty freaking ridiculous.

Which is sort of strange considering the whole purpose is for these groups to be cordoned off from the rest of DU.

If the members of "protected groups," "safe spaces," whatever we want to call them, want to be able to have open, candid discussions on the topic of their choice without fear of hides, opposing viewpoints, etc., that is an awesome thing, and they should be able to do so.

But many of these members also want their threads to be able to show on the main pages, such as the Greatest, and that is where the problem lies, IMHO.

The Greatest Page does not make it obvious enough that a thread is in a protected group, and so the many members who basically live on the Greatest page see the thread and immediately go into it reply, alert, etc., not realizing there are different rules at play.

I've said it before; I think "protected groups" threads need to be in their own section so they can't rise to the Latest/Greatest (if protected groups want to be separate I don't see why they would oppose this), or the Admins need to draw our eyes much more to the Group in which each thread is located.

I just question whether it is safe for me (or seemingly any African-American) to post anything with respect to race that is not apologia or feel good stuff. I find this strange, considering the number of progressives that call DU a home.

I, for one, post to the AA Group when I want serious discussions around race because the discussions are generally respectful, even as they are hotly contested.

When stuff like this: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8023370 (or even the instant thread) is alerted on, and in the former instance, hidden, DU is proves to be a less than progressive place.

It is your right.

The said progressives do little to support you, a black man or me a woman. I never see them kicking threads about women or black issues. I only see criticism, pushback and attempted hides.

I think the "Progressive" label is misleading, to me it means purist. I will stay a liberal Democrat, and I will liberally support all people every day. That is my goal and I am sticking with it.

I did a post about woman protesting the GOP in Cleveland. They did it naked. It was awesome and I did not see the "Progressives" there shouting their support.

Actually I got alerted on. Wow, DU and the said Progressives, no show, alert... sad our voice should be silenced.

I am not at all surprised yours was. Tell it. I will as well.

He once banned someone who was unreccing every single post in the old DU2 LGBT forum--he knows there are people here who are not good faith actors on these issues.

the admin went to certain other sites, read the celebrating (specifically referring to the bullshit they are pulling here) and match up the ip addresses ... then, banning the shit out of the not of good faith actors.

It would be some work, but I suspect the effort would be enlightening.

How could anyone alert on this?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/11389011

As long as one is not required to agree.

You've managed to help me think differently about a thing or two over the last couple of years, so what you've been doing is working.

At least the DU PTB have realized that outspoken AA people are being targeted by alert trolls.

I had hoped the new jury system would improve things a bit, but most of the alerts I've gotten have been beyond silly, thin skinned people alerting because someone disagreed with them.

do! I am one of your greatest fans!

And thank you 1SBM.

That's the only way these discussions can work.

speak your mind.

but for the fact that the rules require 4 of 7 to hide a post. I don't have the inclination to calculate the odds of finding consecutive juries that would vote to hide my post, only to have them re-instated upon review, but I would imagine the odds would be pretty long ... if there wasn't some pack behavior occurring.

I prefer "You're a great ally to AAs. Lord knows you are!" It will put your sensitive delicate alerters at ease before they read your informative posts.

But seriously, I truly do not know. People don't like to hear the truth when it comes to racism. Keep posting though!

or into undue censorship because a minority of the members don't want to hear your point of view. It is absurd on its face! This joint is not named RepublicansRUs. If your words so offend the sensibilities of these people they should find the ignore function. They have no right to censor what you write or what I read.

And these people are not only the same ones screaming loudest about how big an ally to Black people they are, they are also screaming loudest about freedom of speech. Oft times it seems they believe in freedom of speech only when it confirms their world view, not challenges it. What a little bubble to live in.

You have been the catalyst for a lot of stimulating and educational discussion here. Keep it up! It is encouraging that the admins resolved this so quickly.

So they must be just hiding everything that talks about racism, or any post where the poster says they're African American?

I'm glad you're back!

my fan club has made sure that I have about the same odds of serving on a jury, as I would getting elected to head the NRA, on an gun control platform.