It just organizes scenes and ideas. It's handy dandy. Written by a programmer/writer.

http://www.spacejock.com/yWriter5.html?yWriter5

Using it now for a novel and a non-fiction book. I'm not interested in software that offers suggestions. I write for fun, and that would take the fun out of writing.

I can see where it has possibilities.

Personally, I find that I can keep better track of certain things non-digitally, although that tends to date me.

I first learned about it when I took a workshop last summer. There were two of the instructors were published writers and friends who post at the How To Write blog. They both touted the Writer's Cafe in their workshops, not because they had an stake in selling it because they are like you and me - looking for good writing software and having a devil of a time trying to find it.

Interestingly, one of them is a plotter (who has to have the whole plot down in an outline before they start to write) and the other one is a pantser (who like to put butt to chair and just start writing without a preconceived plot). Still, they both loved this program.

I went back for another workshop this year and these same two writers are still in love with this program. So, if you're planning on spending any money on software, this might be the place to do it.

Here's one of their blog posts talking about how Writer's Cafe works for them (#4 on the list of must haves). Maybe their description will help you.
http://howtowriteshop.loridevoti.com/2012/02/tools-writers-plotting-taxes-productive/

Also, here's an interview with one of the software writers for Writer's Cafe that you might find helpful.
http://howtowriteshop.loridevoti.com/2012/02/interview-harriet-smart-writers-cafe/

Ywriter didn't work for me. I've downloaded several versions, but (besides the fact that it doesn't work on my Linux boxes) I found it to be overly bogged down with charts I didn't need and no flexibility for me to create the ones I needed. I was already in the middle of a novel when I first tried it and there was no easy way to import what I had already written. When I began my second novel, I tried it again, but found it more cumbersome than this pantser has patience for.

For me, it turned out to be a good starter program that helped me understand what I wanted, or didn't want, in a writing software program.

I see that Writer's Cafe has a free trial version, and I'm going to check it out.

I am old enough that I am a big fan of the old stuff, like printing out hard copies and making corrections directly on them, stuff like that. I keep on wishing I had space where I am to set up a table to lay out my writing, because I'm very visual, and that's the sort of thing that works for me.

The other thing I'm exceptional bad at is actual plotting. Story or novel ideas are incredibly easy to generate, at least for me. But where to go with them, what the eventual plot should be, almost always eludes me. So I can do a semi-decent job of writing a short story, and can come up with ideas that are clearly novel ideas, but then I get stuck.

I also think I need to attend a few more writing conferences to help me out here.

Thanks again.

My workshop instructor last year is visual like you. She created her own portable bulletin boards (kind of like the school project display boards, but smaller) and used one for each project. I expect an art portfolio could work as well. She hung these in her writing space at home, but could take one or more with her whenever she traveled, too.

For each project, she would section off the board so that she had a space for characters, a space marked off for 4 acts (her preference). And a couple of other sections I don't remember at the moment.

Then she would either print and cut character notes or create post-its (color coded) as she developed each main character. For secondary and tertiary characters she created lists, so at a glance she could refresh her memory about who was whom as she was working.

In the 4 acts section, she would use more color coded post-its for chapter notes, scene ideas and to-do's. As she finished scenes, she would print a scene chart for each act listing what she called Big Ass Turning Points (based on the 10 key scenes). She could see at a glance what she had done and what needed doing when she sat down at her desk every morning.

She also wasn't afraid to post on her command central photos to represent characters, quotes, fabrics/colors, etc in a kind of collage that reminded her of her story and created visual reminders of world she was writing about.

That said, she mentioned this year that she has switched to Writer's Cafe because they have all the components in her command central, including a collage feature.

Also, when I write and try to organize ideas, I just use my handy-dandy excel sheet.
When it gets too complicated, I have Access.

Everything is made handy with tabs. The story is broken into scenes that you can rearrange across chapters. It doesn't do anything fancy. I just like its flexibility. I don't have to hunt for passages or other documents. It's all right in one spot. And it does lots of automatic backups.

Or a pen and paper.

The real work of writing goes on in your own head. It's not the equipment that counts.

I'm wondering if people who are using complex software aren't making this more complicated than they need to be.

One real problem with computers is that it can be harder to locate a file than if you're using paper.

I'm currently working on a series of stories that will (I hope) come together as a coherent whole (novel) and so far at least it's not at all difficult to just create paper file folders for each story. I have a simple list of who my characters are, what's the deal with each, and just add to it as needed. That's all on one sheet of paper.

Now I'm doing all of my actual typing on a computer, and everything is also saved as a word file.

And I have taken a little time with Writer's Cafe, but as pared down as that apparently is, it still overcomplicates things, in my opinion. Anyway, I have no reason to doubt someone who swears by some sort of writing or organizational software, but I'm still yet to see anything that fits my personal writing style.

But I'm still interested in hearing what others have tried.

Use a computer only when I get to the second draft and beyond. Computers just make everything more complicated and they make you want to edit everything to death before the story's even finished.

and have finally make it behave with... Elements (When they finally get out out for the IPAD I will be a happy camper, will get that APP the day it launches, trust me on that one.)

Anyhoo, it is all but a structure.

Essentially think of it as if using Word, with different files for different things. You got your Draft file, you got your research folder, with your files for characters and all that... you get the picture.

I have been trying to make it behave with Notebooks, but no such luck. Simplenote gets way too confusing for me, but it is finally working with Elements.

And yes, I am happy for two reasons... I can also now use it for my research articles too... will make life that much easier. I hate to carry a laptop anymore and if all I have is the IPOD, guess what? If I have my IPAD, likely... and I just need to sync.

But all the structure it has is master folder, Draft folder, research folder... at least that is the template I am using at the moment, the short fiction one. When I export the file that is when it looks nice and ready for publication.

I have used dramatica from time to time to develop characters, as it asks questions that at times I don't.

Of course, this short fiction may develop into novella, or full fledged novel, don't know yet.

Liquid Story Binder - http://www.blackobelisksoftware.com/
Snowflake Pro - http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/info/snowflake_pro/

Snowflake Pro helps you develop an outline.
Liquid Story Binder is a vast group of tools that you can use to develop your own way to write novels.

I like Snowflake Pro to begin the process and Liquid Story Binder as an all round tool for developing and managing the novel and the database of information around the novel.

Finally, for editing I use Microsoft Word.

I also use DocstoGo on my IPAD to write on the go.

But I kind of want to get back to my original question, which is that I'm trying to figure out if the novel-writing software packages don't suggest a lot of the elements that ought to be put into a novel, and that's why I'm noticing these weird aspects of some novels I've read recently. It's like what's being suggested, say in a YA novel, that you must have a particular kind of conflict with a parent. Or if there's a sibling with this characteristic, there must be a sibling with another characteristic.

I'm wondering if free-form creativity isn't being lost to the service of the software.

It's a little like grammar checking. That a pretty good idea if English isn't your first language, but almost always what gets suggested to me is simply not correct, or definitely not the way I want to say something.