I have two good links for you to people who have.

One is to a post by DUer/self publisher Pab Sungenis. Read his post comment #9 in this thread where he tells us to click on the link in his signature line:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/100226302#post9

The other is a link to a now NY Times best selling author & he is also the first self-published author to hit #1 on Amazon/Kindle, plus more:

http://donovancreed.com/about-john-locke/

The money has been small and has varied a fair amount from month to month. Still, it's more than zero, and it's nice to see my old books, which were out of print, earning something again.

I've written a fair amount about this on my blog. Self-publishing in e-book format has revitalized me as a writer. I'm more productive now than I had been for quite while.

However, if you're starting out, beginning your career, I'm not convinced that self-publishing e-books is the right way to go. It might be best to try the old way first -- looking for an agent, writing the next book while the agent tries to sell the preceding one, etc.

n/t

Yes, a few self-published people have made it big, but they are the rare exception to the rule.

My advice is try to find an agent and then find a publisher. If you can't, and the choice is whether to e-publish or just let the book sit forever in your desk drawer (or on your hard drive) go ahead and do it.

I published two of my novels. One my former agent burned all our bridges with (I feel by mismarketing it to publishers) and the other was just too controversial for traditional publishers. But I doubt I'll ever give up on the other two to put them out myself.

The two novels I've put out have brought me less than $200.00 in total sales. If they hadn't already gone through a rigorous editing process with my former agent and I'd had to pay to have them professionally edited, or if I hadn't been able to do the cover art myself and have a half-decent product, I would have lost money on the whole thing.

Self-publishing (or e-publishing) is a last resort for a story.

rare exception to the rule.

The real money is still made the traditional route, but self-publishing is a handy fallback.

The vast majority of self-published books are flops.

Traditional publishing at least helps you establish a brand. If you want to self-publish AFTER you're branded, that's a different matter.

The vast majority of flops are self-published books.

Regardless of the publishing medium, lousy books are still lousy books, and what digital publishing has done is give the authorsof the lousy books a means to "publish" them. But it's the books that are lousy, not the medium.

Having done it both ways -- paper and digital -- I can say there are some constants.

Badly written books don't sell. Traditional publishers don't buy them, readers don't buy them. When they're published on line, readers still don't buy them. They're still lousy books.

Are there some stories that aren't masterpieces of literature and style that still manage to attract huge fan bases? Sure. But when they do, it's because there is something compelling that lifts the book above the flaws in its execution.

No matter how you publish -- traditional royalty paper publisher, non-traditional small press, vanity press, digital online publisher, or self-e-publishing, you still have to produce a product people want to read. That's the inescapable bottom line.

Every writer thinks his/her work is wonderful and people are going to knock each other over to get their hands on this latest masterpiece. Odds are, it's not nearly as wonderful as the writer thinks. Odds are it's not written very well. Odds are the author ignored a lot of well-intentioned advice -- like getting an editor, learning the basics of grammar, cutting it from 850,000 words to 150,000.

Most of the books currently being self-e-published are books that no traditional publisher wanted to publish. They were flops before they ever made it to the Kindle or the Nook or the Smashwords website. I'm currently reading a novel that was written 20 years ago, and in those 20 years the author tried and tried and tried to find a print publisher. Then she tried to find an e-publisher. Six weeks ago she gave up and published it on Amazon's Kindle Direct Publishing program. In six weeks she hasn't sold a single copy to a paying customer. And right now, she's representative of the majority of self-publishing authors.

BUT that's changing. Many print authors are still bound by existing contracts that grant them 10% (and less) royalties. Many of them are looking at the 35% and 70% royalties paid by Amazon and saying, SHIT! why am I sticking with print when I can get five or ten times the money and get it in 90 days instead of two years?

Print authors who are getting rights reverted to their backlist titles are putting them into digital editions and not only making more money on them than they did in print, but they are raising the quality standard for digital publishing.

Self publishing isn't without its drawbacks. You need to either be a superb editor or you have to pay for one. You'll need to pay for your own cover art. You'll need to do your own promotion. And yes, you'll be just another unknown in a sea of unknowns.

But technology is going to change the way people read and buy books. Expect to see stripped-down e-reader devices similar to portable DVD players, in the $30-$50 range for the more casual reader, the person who doesn't want to be tied to a tablet or a fancy display. They just want a damn book to read. When that device hits the market, paper publishing will be all but a memory.

And the more there's a shift to digital reading, the more there's going to be a demand for higher quality in the material. Sure, the garbage will still be published and self-published, but it's not going to be read any more than it is now.

So if you aren't writing material of the quality that would normally be acceptable to print publishers, you're probably not going to sell any better digitally. Digital offers opportunities for niche books that didn't have the profit potential for traditional publishers, but the quality of writing still has to be there.

It's aimed at about a 10-13 year old crowd. I worked on it for ten years and finally said "fuck it - I'll just publish it on Amazon." http://www.amazon.com/Goblin-Booker-Forest-ebook/dp/B005GEZJ4M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1324396623&sr=8-1

I've got several more stories, some of which I'm publishing under a pen name because they are NOT childrens' material and I don't want them directly associated with my kid stories. Cover art is my big problem with some of them. I'm picky. My middle daughter took the photographs used to create the cover for Goblin.

So far I've made almost two dollars. They won't send you money until you hit ten dollars and then it could take up to two months. Whatever. At least it is out there. I've had the domain "BookerForest.com" since about the time I started the story. I just need to take the time to do something with it. I listed the book for $1.00 with no DRM restrictions just to get it out there. It's about a 90 minute read and I'm rather happy with it. Writing for younger audiences is particularly challenging, but fortunately my wife has a BS in Elem. Ed/Early Childhood and a masters in Elem. Ed. That helps.

The next one I'm going to put up is somewhat dark (pen name Paul C. Brickner) and will be called "The Rape of Kyra Collins". There are two more books in the series that I'm working on but they aren't even close to ready.

I've tried going through agents. It is a rough market and print material seems to be dying. I'm not sure Amazon is the best place to ePublish, but it is at least there and they've got free reader software for most major platforms (not Linux, unfortunately).

Basically, if you've got something you think is good, go ahead and publish it - what's the worst that can happen? Actually, the worst is that it will languish on your hard drive and be forgotten when you pass on.

I'm willing to review your work if you want - convert it to RTF and e-mail me a copy - tom@thomaspshultz.com

Tom

And so far I've sold about 50 books and 10 Kindle editions online and about 50 at book signings and readings. The biggest drawback to self-publishing is that you can't get reviewed in regular channels and so you must rely on really good word-of-mouth, a website or blog to promote it, and intense social networking to help build sales. I decided to self-publish after my big-time agent decided that I needed to be a romance novelist and would submit my (non-romance) to publishers of romance. While the editors comments were positive, obviously my work always ended up needing 'more work' to make them more romantic. Agents are no longer the gatekeepers to publishing. Big publishers are accepting fewer and fewer books, so even with an agent your chances are less than they were up to 9/11/2001 (when they became so paranoid they stopped opening submissions even from known agents).

After an huge amount of effort, they may end up with a non-seller. The way it is now, is that they'll only look at you if you already have a following. They want a guarantee.

if you are a celebrity or if you've committed a mass murder. Name recognition. They just don't go to the trouble to promote new authors these days. Everybody wants a guarantee, but nobody gets one. IRL you get what you get. Sometimes fair, sometimes not fair. Good luck to you!

I have two books that I published on lulu back in 2007, which are doing well, I sell about 100 to 150 copies a month, combined.
As for ebooks, I recently published a picture book on Nook, kindle and iBooks. The iBooks is the one that's selling the most...between one and four a day. I also went thru LSI and got the paperback version out there for $6.95 per copy (LSI is a must for PBs since the price is lower than lulu or createspace). The paperback sales are a huge disappointment. In the future, I would stick to the ebooks before I spend the money on the paperbacks. I priced this ebook ridiculously low at 99 cents. So, yes, you can make money and it is very easy to get it in the needed formats and upload. The thing is, it's a tough climb, to get the sales, and can be very frustrating. However, IMO, trying to get an agent and a publisher is more frustrating and I'd rather spend my energy on what I love.

It's a little perplexing to me and I'm not quite sure how to sort it out well enough to respond, but yet I kinda feel I have to.

Okay, I have 2 books up on Kindle/CreateSpace and I haven't promoted them at all (shame on me though I am getting ready to do so), but have sold a few copies of each nonetheless.

I come to this from a completely different angle: internet marketing where putting books up on Kindle and CreateSpace has been promoted as a cool, easy, quick way to make money -- LOL, like all the other IM schemes. THEIR advice was to basically buy PLR (private label rights) products, slam them together and put them on Kindle. Or, find public domain information and create a book out of it. Then scale up and produce hundreds of similar "products." And a key principle for success is to find out what people are buying and create products for those markets, which is very good advice, IMO.

My approach has been quite a bit different from what's being discussed in this thread. When I became aware that I could create information products and put them on Kindle and CreateSpace, I became much less interested in creating information products to put on Clickbank, which had been my plan, altho Clickbank still commands higher selling prices than most people will ever get on Kindle or CreateSpace.

I've always been a writer -- although the truth is I'm not a writer so much as a communicator who does her communicating best in writing, if that makes sense. I've never wanted to just write, write, write for the joy of it (it's work, not joy for me), never particularly wanted to see my name on the cover of a book or even as a byline. Never wanted to be required to research or study subjects that weren't of any interest to me (as freelance writers have to do, for example). So writing a book the traditional way and finding an agent and a publisher was never on my list of what I wanted to accomplish in life -- I coulda cared less.

At the same time, creating "information products" to sell for subjects I AM interested in and passionate about, now that's a different matter. And while Clickbank has its benefits, and nothing is stopping me from offering my books there too, I'm rather enjoying having them on CreateSpace and Kindle. They make me feel a little more like a "real author." I have at least 4 more books I intend to create -- smallish ones, but with high value nonetheless.

So, my view of most of what is being discussed in this thread is, uh -- wut? Huh? And so forth.

I love the control I get with Kindle and CreateSpace. I can create anything I want (within reason, but really it's wide open) and don't have anyone to answer to. No deadlines (almost a bad thing, actually), no editors (ditto, perhaps), no gatekeepers, no agents, NOBODY to get in my way. The way is free and clear. I'm free to succeed entirely on my own terms and I'm free to fail. Mostly, I'm failing by most people's standards, but my books will never be out of print! They don't have to be -- because the books are only "in print" when someone purchases it with POD (Print on Demand), which is the coolest thing going, bookwise. Or they[re in digital print.

I really need to promote my own books more (or start), but I've heard that when you have a publisher you have to do a lot to promote your book as well. So, what's different?

So, from my vantage point, here's what I'd say to anyone who is writing books of any kind:

1. You're going to have to promote your book no matter which route you take, so just be aware of that and ready for it.

2. Don't think in terms of 1 book. Write, write, WRITE! And then write more. Create as many books as you humanly can. Make them GOOD books, of course, but stop thinking about your one magnum opus. Think instead of an endless stream of creativity leaking through YOUR pen to make you well-off if not wealthy.

3. Kindle/CreateSpace versus traditional publishing house? Well, I can't make that decision for you. It's up to you and your dream, but remember that publishing is dying. Literally. It'll be a long, slow death, probably, but a death nonetheless. Here's one view of why: http://tinyurl.com/85293mv I feel this so strongly that I can't help but think of publishing houses -- and the whole route of getting published -- as anachronistic. But, again, it has to be your decision.

I hope I've been able to convey my thoughts, ideas and experiences adequately.

So far I haven't sold any e-books. My independent website has only sold some few "hard copies" (soft covers) to people I've been in contact with by some other means or some comic books (illustrated short stories) to strangers I've never heard of.

I've had mixed luck in selling books on consignment... novels are hard/impossible while stories of driving a taxi have sold ok to audiences likely to take a taxi in the same city (Oakland, CA).

My best successes have been selling them in person... to people in the taxis, or limos, or otherwise crossing my path in person. Unfortunately, this scarcely amounts to drinking money, especially after the production costs of the "hard copies" is considered.

If only I could convince everyone who's read a story online, or from a sample copy I've donated somewhere, and whose liked the story... to donate me a quarter— I'm sure I'd have some countable change.

I guess the secret is to remember not to write stories that appeal to the poor...

I appreciate it all and will take it all under advisement. The book I'm working on at the moment is a Star Wars-ish kind of story and I've already been kind of developing it as part of a larger series. I am also developing an accompanying Tumblr blog to help accompany/promote my work. I have also done some more "adult" type of writing on a lark but I'm not sure that my wife would approve of it, much less of its actual publication. I'm not necessarily looking for a full-time career as a writer but I have developed an urge to create something unique instead of just always taking in stuff that other people have filmed, written, etc. and enjoy writing in my spare time and, hey, if I can bring in a little extra money in on the side with my writing, so much the better. Although my story is fiction, I love writing about politics and would love a column of my own to be able to regularly write about current events (part of the reason I love posting here at DU and elsewhere) but it seems like in order to get a job as an opinion columnist, you have to actually be a journalist. I do have small perch at Examiner.com but I feel too restricted in terms of what I can write about and have made very little money with it so far.

Not a lot of traffic (maybe 50,000 per month) but I'm really trying to build columnists.

Please PM me if you're interested...

Thx!

After much frustration and a lot of time wasted contacting agents and publishers, I decided to go the e-publishing route and put my books on Kindle. The experience so far has been quite rewarding, though not always well paid.

Unless your novel is the next The Help, keep your initial expectations low. Sales of my own books* were disappointingly slow at first, but over time picked up, and in the first six weeks of this year alone I have sold over 1500 books. (I have earned in royalties as much in the past month and a half than I earned all last year.) Encouraging, but hardly enough to retire on my own private island in the Mediterranean. With luck, those who like the book will tell their friends, who will in turn tell their friends and . . . (You get the picture.)

In addition to having a good story, shameless self promotion is key to sales. This can be a full-time job and quite the distraction when you would much rather be moving on to the next novel. I blog (www.aonghascrowe.com) assiduously in order to gain new readers and promote my works. I actively seek interviews/reviews in magazines, newspapers, and blogs, too. This gets your name out there, has people talking about you, spreading the word. Don't expect, though, that just because your name is in the morning paper book sales will go through the roof that day. It takes time.

Once you have steady sales, your ranking in the bestselling lists will rise. Writing for a niche market (mine is Japan/Middle East) is important here as it will enable your work to rise much faster among bestsellers. One of my works usually bobs up and down between #5 and #20 in Kindle Books on Japan. As your work climbs higher among Kindle books it will also rise in the ranks of ordinary "book-books" as well, giving it even more exposure. For example, this morning No.6, the more popular of my two books on Kindle was at #1 in Kindle books on Lebanon, #10 in Kindle books on Japan, and #20-something in book-books.

What else? If you're like me and your ultimate goal is to be in print, to see your novel on the shelf of a bookstore and in the hands of strangers on trains, sunbathers at the beach, then I think e-publishing can be a means to that end. Sell well enough, create enough of a sensation, and those agents and publishers who ignored you may take notice. (Knock on wood!)

Good luck to ye!





*http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=ntt_athr_dp_sr_2?_encoding=UTF8&search-alias=digital-text&field-author=Aonghas%20Crowe