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DetlefK

(16,455 posts)
Wed Nov 28, 2018, 03:15 PM Nov 2018

What counts as evidence for/against God?

The old back and forth: There is no evidence! There is evidence! Evidence doesn't matter because belief does not depend on evidence! You are supposed to show evidence that he exists! No, you are supposed to show evidence that he doesn't exist!

What kind of evidence are we even talking about?
Witness-testimony?
A subjective sentient observer making a repeatable measurement on an object?

What would a piece of evidence for God's existence even look like?
What would a piece of evidence against God's existence even look like?
What would be good enough?

And let's say, there is a massive miracle that cannot in any way be explained by science and too many credible witnesses to discard it, how can we be sure that God did it? What if it was Satan? Or aliens? Or a hallucination?





Let me guess: "We will just know."
Okay, that means, as long as there's one guy who doesn't know, it doesn't count, because if it were the real deal, he would know.

24 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
What counts as evidence for/against God? (Original Post) DetlefK Nov 2018 OP
Nothing. elleng Nov 2018 #1
A definition of god must be presented first. trotsky Nov 2018 #2
The last refuge of the theist Cartoonist Nov 2018 #3
Somewhere in the ancient Celtic world... oldlibdem Nov 2018 #4
Define evidence, and define God. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #5
You claim god exists, you define him Lordquinton Nov 2018 #6
I claim belief that God exists. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #7
I know the difference between claim and proof Lordquinton Nov 2018 #8
Sophistry, Guy. Pure and Simple. MineralMan Nov 2018 #9
Apart from what you reveal when speakigngto theists, guillaumeb Nov 2018 #10
Writing coherent sentences. Act_of_Reparation Nov 2018 #15
In an interesting display of irony, guillaumeb Nov 2018 #16
Are coherent and complete synonymous? Act_of_Reparation Nov 2018 #17
I'm a generalist, Guy. MineralMan Nov 2018 #18
Descartes proved with logic that God exists but the Catholic Church rejected it because logic and pr keithbvadu2 Nov 2018 #11
His "proof" was not very compelling edhopper Nov 2018 #12
Logic is irrelevant. DetlefK Nov 2018 #14
" What is more in line with being static and unchanging? Existence or non-existence?" edhopper Nov 2018 #19
Witness testimony is all we have marylandblue Nov 2018 #13
You'd have to define God qazplm135 Nov 2018 #20
There's tons of evidence against. Iggo Nov 2018 #21
Failure to provide evidence for something is not the same as providing evidence against something. DetlefK Dec 2018 #22
God keeps piling up absences. Iggo Dec 2018 #23
Those making the claim must provide the evidence edhopper Dec 2018 #24

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
2. A definition of god must be presented first.
Wed Nov 28, 2018, 03:28 PM
Nov 2018

That will help outline what constitutes evidence for or against it.

oldlibdem

(330 posts)
4. Somewhere in the ancient Celtic world...
Wed Nov 28, 2018, 04:28 PM
Nov 2018

A dinosaur skeleton was discovered and the legend of dragons was born. As we progressed thru history, science proved evolution, and we now know the origin of species to one degree or another. Very few people believe that dragons as presented in mythology are real. Same with omnipotent deities. Ancient man saw events he could not explain and attributed them to "Gods". As we matured as a species we learned the truth about our world and Bronze-age mythology has fallen by the wayside.

Lordquinton

(7,886 posts)
6. You claim god exists, you define him
Wed Nov 28, 2018, 05:09 PM
Nov 2018

You have been asked that question repeatedly many times way before you asked those questions.

If you need a definition for evidence, then either you don't have the knowledge to participate in the conversation, or you are acting in bad faith.

guillaumeb

(42,649 posts)
7. I claim belief that God exists.
Wed Nov 28, 2018, 05:18 PM
Nov 2018

If you do not know the difference between and a claim of proof, you should not participate in the conversation, or....etc.

Lordquinton

(7,886 posts)
8. I know the difference between claim and proof
Wed Nov 28, 2018, 05:52 PM
Nov 2018

I'm not asking for a definition of claim or evidence like you are, I'm asking you about what you believe exists.

MineralMan

(147,591 posts)
18. I'm a generalist, Guy.
Fri Nov 30, 2018, 09:17 AM
Nov 2018

I really don't have a particular specialty when it comes to having opinions and sharing them. Many things interest me, but language is one of those things, so I do try to manage it as well as I can. From your title, it's clear that such things are not important to you. That's OK, though. We can usually figure out what it is you're trying so hard to say.

keithbvadu2

(40,126 posts)
11. Descartes proved with logic that God exists but the Catholic Church rejected it because logic and pr
Wed Nov 28, 2018, 08:52 PM
Nov 2018

Descartes proved with logic that God exists but the Catholic Church rejected it because logic and proof negate the need for faith.

DetlefK

(16,455 posts)
14. Logic is irrelevant.
Thu Nov 29, 2018, 04:29 AM
Nov 2018

Kurt Goedel made a proof of God, very similar to the one of Descartes: Both came to the conclusion that if a highest good is possible, then it must exist.

However, it always depends on whether the assumptions can be found in the real world. Goedel's assumptions were plainly unrealistic, thus rendering his proof no more than a mathematical exercise.

Descartes imagines God as unchanging and static (omnipotent, omniscient...), and from this he somehow deduces that God must exist. But think of all the things that exist and all the things that do not exist and will lnever exist? What is more in line with being static and unchanging? Existence or non-existence?

edhopper

(34,836 posts)
19. " What is more in line with being static and unchanging? Existence or non-existence?"
Fri Nov 30, 2018, 10:36 AM
Nov 2018

wonderful logic, worthy of Descartes.

marylandblue

(12,344 posts)
13. Witness testimony is all we have
Wed Nov 28, 2018, 11:00 PM
Nov 2018

Some people claim to have seen, spoken to, or entered mystical union with God. It's worth as much or as little as any other uncorroborated witness testimony.

qazplm135

(7,501 posts)
20. You'd have to define God
Fri Nov 30, 2018, 12:14 PM
Nov 2018

if we are talking GOD with omnipotence, omniscience, etc...then you'd need some acts that very clearly break the laws of physics.

Maybe reanimate in perfect form everyone who has ever lived instantaneously. Or cause the Earth to instantly change orbit and yet maintain things as they are. Swing it out into the space between galaxies but the Sky is still blue and heat is still raining down.

If we are talking something/someone of a lesser sort, then we are really just talking about a very smart, very powerful creature but not GOD who has little g god-like powers.

Iggo

(48,271 posts)
21. There's tons of evidence against.
Fri Nov 30, 2018, 05:06 PM
Nov 2018

No god is there.

Or there.

Or over there.

Or under this.

Or behind that.

Nowhere.

No god is there.
There is no god.

DetlefK

(16,455 posts)
22. Failure to provide evidence for something is not the same as providing evidence against something.
Sat Dec 1, 2018, 08:18 AM
Dec 2018

That's not how science works.

There is no evidence that a sack of rice just fell over in China. Does that mean, we can deduce that NO sack of rice did just fall over in China?

edhopper

(34,836 posts)
24. Those making the claim must provide the evidence
Sat Dec 1, 2018, 10:31 AM
Dec 2018

or at least posit what the evidence should be.
That is how science works.

Those advocating for the Ether, or N-Rays or Cold Fusion were the ones that needed to provide proof.

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