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trotsky

(49,533 posts)
Tue Jan 29, 2019, 10:14 AM Jan 2019

The Problem with the Latest Predictions for 'the Rise of the Religious Left'

https://rewire.news/religion-dispatches/2019/01/28/the-problem-with-the-latest-predictions-for-the-rise-of-the-religious-left/

It’s common knowledge that the religious right played a large role in the election of Donald Trump in 2016. About 4 out of 5 white evangelicals voted for Trump and the majority continue to back him, even if explicit support may be slipping.

...Enter the so-called religious left. Last week NPR ran a story about the putative rise of a more left-leaning religious coalition in the United States. The story suggests that a “comparable effort by liberal religious leaders” to the formation of the Moral Majority some 40 years ago is now taking shape, “coalescing in support of immigrant rights, universal healthcare, LBGTQ rights and racial justice.”

...Tired of their faith being reduced to little more than conservative talking points, Christians of the religious left want the broader population to know that Christianity has more to it. Among other things, Christianity is eminently about social justice, a concern for the poor, marginalized, and oppressed. In a word, among the ranks of Christians are a good many “progressives.”

...The other problem with this framing is that it presupposes that there even is such a thing as an ‘essential’ or ’true’ Christianity. While Christianity isn’t endlessly subjective it would be extremely difficult to argue that a millennia-old world religion with its numerous cultural variations and scriptural interpretations can be reduced to ‘true’ and ‘not true’ forms. And it’s entirely possible that echoing the Christian right’s claims to represent a true Christianity only winds up bolstering such claims.
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The Problem with the Latest Predictions for 'the Rise of the Religious Left' (Original Post) trotsky Jan 2019 OP
Different politics, same annoying tendencies. Act_of_Reparation Jan 2019 #1
We are at a political crossroads marylandblue Jan 2019 #2
Since when? Cartoonist Jan 2019 #3
I call BS... NeoGreen Jan 2019 #5
There is a sect for everyone. safeinOhio Jan 2019 #18
Okay...while derived, historically, from christian sects... NeoGreen Jan 2019 #20
Don't you know me? Cartoonist Jan 2019 #22
I must be having an "off" day... NeoGreen Jan 2019 #25
If they can help get good people into office and bad people out. KansasKali Jan 2019 #4
I guess you didn't read the article. n/t trotsky Jan 2019 #16
If the Christian "Left" wants to do something, let it start by MineralMan Jan 2019 #6
They almost do this, just poorly. Pope George Ringo II Jan 2019 #7
I know many Christians who are progressives. MineralMan Jan 2019 #10
Some do, no doubt. Pope George Ringo II Jan 2019 #12
Many have ugly positions themselves Major Nikon Jan 2019 #13
Problem is, there are plenty of verses and texts to support every Christian's position. trotsky Jan 2019 #15
That's because religion reflects culture. MineralMan Jan 2019 #19
I've heard this before zipplewrath Jan 2019 #8
There's other problems with this sort of wishful thinking Major Nikon Jan 2019 #9
"Let's all work together to make my invisible friend happy" is a poor foundation. Pope George Ringo II Jan 2019 #11
"they will start to demand power in exchange for their support" trotsky Jan 2019 #14
As I've always said, organized religion is the antithesis to progressivism Major Nikon Jan 2019 #17
Do you have an opinion on... NeoGreen Jan 2019 #21
My father was a UUA ordained minister Major Nikon Jan 2019 #23
Fair enough... NeoGreen Jan 2019 #24
Good answer Lordquinton Jan 2019 #26

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
1. Different politics, same annoying tendencies.
Tue Jan 29, 2019, 10:25 AM
Jan 2019

Americans, broadly, are already positively disposed towards Christianity. Americans, broadly, are Christians. They don't need a condescending ex-hippy "cool pastor" to explain to them there is more to Christianity than Billy fucking Graham. They already know.

marylandblue

(12,344 posts)
2. We are at a political crossroads
Tue Jan 29, 2019, 10:29 AM
Jan 2019

These sort of shifts happen every 40 years or so. Last one was 1980. Either the nation will turn sharply left, and Christianity will go left with it, or it will turn right into authoritarianism and we will be in a lot of trouble. I am an optimist so I see us turning left, but the struggle is now and the outcome uncertain.

Cartoonist

(7,530 posts)
3. Since when?
Tue Jan 29, 2019, 10:31 AM
Jan 2019

Christianity is eminently about social justice, a concern for the poor, marginalized, and oppressed.
_

They must have started doing that after the Crusades. Or was that after the Spanish Inquisition? Maybe it was after Salem. Maybe they started doing that after the genocide of native people was complete. Maybe they'll start now that they put Trump in the White House.

The world is waiting for Christianity to start doing something about social justice, a concern for the poor, marginalized, and oppressed.

NeoGreen

(4,033 posts)
5. I call BS...
Tue Jan 29, 2019, 11:06 AM
Jan 2019

...

Christianity is eminently about social justice, a concern for the poor, marginalized, and oppressed.


Its main points include: Belief in God the Father, Jesus Christ as the Son of God, and the Holy Spirit. The death, descent into hell, resurrection and ascension of Christ.

Everything else is tacked on and incidental.

I presume your quote above is not your POV, and apologies if I misread the intent of your post.

safeinOhio

(34,071 posts)
18. There is a sect for everyone.
Tue Jan 29, 2019, 11:50 AM
Jan 2019

Unitarians don't buy the Trinity and Universalist don't believe in Hell.

Humanist and Ethical Society are very interesting.

NeoGreen

(4,033 posts)
20. Okay...while derived, historically, from christian sects...
Tue Jan 29, 2019, 12:22 PM
Jan 2019

...unlike all remaining christian sects UU's don't have a creed. They, as a class, are not properly (i.e. no longer) identified as 'christian'.

While UU's likely have many members who label themselves as 'christian', UU as a religion has moved beyond unity/trinity, heaven/hell.

I'm not aware of remaining, after the merger in 1961, single case "Unitarians" or "Universalists" large enough for a general discussion of christian classes.

MineralMan

(147,575 posts)
6. If the Christian "Left" wants to do something, let it start by
Tue Jan 29, 2019, 11:14 AM
Jan 2019

pointing out why the Christian Right is the Christian Wrong. It's not really that difficult to find proof texts you can use to attack the bigotry, misogyny, anti-immigrant, anti-choice and anti-LGBTQ positions of the Christian Right. Use them, you Christian Leftists.

Call out the crap and tell people why it's crap. Then, once you get their attention, maybe you can sell your brand. Right now, the Christian brand is far, far right. You won't get far unless you start by calling out the bullshit.

Good luck with that. You're going to have to get over that "Judge Not" stuff and that "They're Christians, too" stuff.

Pope George Ringo II

(1,896 posts)
7. They almost do this, just poorly.
Tue Jan 29, 2019, 11:19 AM
Jan 2019

"They're not xians." Unfortunately, after that dismissal, they've got nowhere else to go.

MineralMan

(147,575 posts)
10. I know many Christians who are progressives.
Tue Jan 29, 2019, 11:26 AM
Jan 2019

Their single most glaring flaw is their refusal to attack other Christians who do horrible things. They'll attack politicians, but not on the basis of religion.

I understand it, given the warning not to judge in their scriptures, but that reticence to call out evil that ties itself to Christianity limits their effectiveness.

It has been a source of dispute between me and those Christians I know who are progressives for years. They will tell you what they are for, but will not go after other Christians who do the opposite of what they are for and who claim Christianity in support of their ugly positions.

That attitude weakens their influence, I believe.

Pope George Ringo II

(1,896 posts)
12. Some do, no doubt.
Tue Jan 29, 2019, 11:35 AM
Jan 2019

But look at all of those who simply cannot grasp that their religion is involved with evil, let alone at least partially responsible for it.

Major Nikon

(36,900 posts)
13. Many have ugly positions themselves
Tue Jan 29, 2019, 11:44 AM
Jan 2019

If you have a conversation with them about LGBT and/or women's rights you sometimes find at best they have a hard time criticizing those who use religion to marginalize those groups and at worst they still hold on to some of those ideas themselves because that's what the bible tells them.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
15. Problem is, there are plenty of verses and texts to support every Christian's position.
Tue Jan 29, 2019, 11:46 AM
Jan 2019

The left ignores the stuff about following Jesus or burning in hell.

The right ignores the stuff about loving their enemies.

Each group *knows* there are parts of the bible they don't believe in, but they have perfectly valid (in their minds) reasons to reject those parts. And so the stalemate continues, thanks to how religion works. You have "faith," you don't need evidence or reason.

MineralMan

(147,575 posts)
19. That's because religion reflects culture.
Tue Jan 29, 2019, 11:53 AM
Jan 2019

That never changes. If a religion's scriptures don't have an answer for every question, the solution is to create more scripture. that's why the Bible is such a long book.

zipplewrath

(16,692 posts)
8. I've heard this before
Tue Jan 29, 2019, 11:20 AM
Jan 2019

I think it was during the Clinton era. A supposed rise in evangelicals starting to adopt otherwise "lefty" causes as a rejection of the hate of the religious right. They were suppose to be friendlier to environmental causes, social causes for the poor, and supportive of anti-discrimination positions. I never really saw them materialize.

Major Nikon

(36,900 posts)
9. There's other problems with this sort of wishful thinking
Tue Jan 29, 2019, 11:23 AM
Jan 2019

There's no reason to suspect any sort of "religious left" movement is going to be successful and more reason to believe it will just throw red meat to the fundies. But let's pretend for a moment such a movement were actually successful, would we really want it? Anytime you let religion in the door they will start to demand power in exchange for their support. An entity with political influence that demands morality based on a work of fiction written thousands of years ago is never a good idea. There's still no shortage of even left leaning religion that still teaches hate from the pulpit. Even if you could manage to move them forward off of so many bad ideas, you are still left with a group that will look for advice from mythical entities before they ever compromise on anything.

Pope George Ringo II

(1,896 posts)
11. "Let's all work together to make my invisible friend happy" is a poor foundation.
Tue Jan 29, 2019, 11:33 AM
Jan 2019

It would be one thing if doing good was the foundation, but it's not.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
14. "they will start to demand power in exchange for their support"
Tue Jan 29, 2019, 11:44 AM
Jan 2019

Look at right here on DU with certain people who promote the "religious left" criticizing atheists for speaking their opinions lest we "scare away" potential Democratic voters. In other words, they want power over our voices in exchange for support of the progressive agenda.

Major Nikon

(36,900 posts)
17. As I've always said, organized religion is the antithesis to progressivism
Tue Jan 29, 2019, 11:50 AM
Jan 2019

It doesn't really matter how well meaning they are. The fact is they will always be looking backward for ideas and they will always defend hocus pocus notions as a sacred cow (pardon the pun) which can only be criticized by other believers. Both of those things are counterproductive to progressivism.

Major Nikon

(36,900 posts)
23. My father was a UUA ordained minister
Tue Jan 29, 2019, 12:56 PM
Jan 2019

I was around his church all the time growing up. I even remember avowed atheist members of the congregation providing guest sermons occassionally.

I'm quite familiar with what they are and while they are certainly some of the most open minded of all denominations in the US, I still don't think they are an exception. They still base their core philosophy on scripture and they still tend to look backward rather than forward for answers.

Lordquinton

(7,886 posts)
26. Good answer
Tue Jan 29, 2019, 02:48 PM
Jan 2019

Every time this discussion comes up the UU are brought up as a sort of gotcha line. Best response is like you said "did I stutter?" Only with more tact and explaination.

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