and youll get a hundred different answers. And, many of them will tell you that their understanding of the Bible is the ONLY valid understanding.

You most likely won't get any answers, because Christians generally refuse to answer such simple, straightforward questions about their beliefs.

I am guessing that is a mechanism that will lead to some thinking they won't paint themselves into a corner. Perhaps I am blinded by my own experience in making my previous statement. Most of the Christians I have experienced will talk your ear off about what they believe.

Substantive discussion is not the same thing.

Leviticus. The unadulterated gibberish there has its own special category of excuses.

Most Christians will tell you the OT was upgraded to version 2.0 and is no longer current, except for the part about hatin' on teh gays. That part still in effect.

Mind you Jesus actually said version 1.0 is still the law, but there's a good chance that was really just a metaphor. Who doesn't like to eat ham on Easter anyway? Regardless of which version you are talking about, Christians are at liberty to cherry pick whatever they want and discard the rest.

Last edited Sun Apr 28, 2019, 11:23 AM - Edit history (2)

(like myself) to really consider what we believe, and to respond to those who ask questions.

This is just my own personal view, but I think that beliefs can and should evolve...and what was once seen as "fact" may now be seen as a metaphor. And, ultimately, those of us who say we are believers must decide for ourselves.

For example, in the gospel of Matthew, there are the so called "corporal works of mercy"

For I was hungry and you gave Me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me something to drink, I was a stranger and you took Me in, I was naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you looked after Me, I was in prison and you visited Me.’

To me, this can be seen as a metaphor to offer comfort and support to those in need...for example, I should not withhold offering someone clothes who needs better clothing (such as winter coats or business attire if they are going on job interviews) because they are not literally "naked", or that I should refrain from visiting someone who is lonely because they are not literally incarcerated in a "prison" for committing a crime, or not offering a place to stay for someone who is a friend or family member ( not a "stranger" ) who needs a place to live due to certain circumstances.

So as I see it, all of us believers make a personal choice as to what we see as fact and what we see as a metaphor...and I imagine that will change as there are more advances in science and changes in social norms.

In my opinion, if there is one "truth" in the bible, it should be to love one another, and to offer peace and comfort to the best of our abilities to everyone.

Thank you again for posting!

Wishing you well and peace.

Tim

I don't really see much "personal choice" going on with people who put their faith in the bible. Although many claim they read the bible and make up their own mind about what it means, the reality is someone else reads it and tells them what it means and if it sounds good to them they agree with it. For example, we have a self-described biblical expert in this group who tells us what the bible really means when obvious nonsense is pointed out, and as proof he finds someone, somewhere on the interwebs who agrees with him as if anyone is going to believe he came up with it on his own and others did the same and came to the same answer. All this really means is religion is inherently corruptible. If you are allowing others to tell you what god wants, then you are under their control.

I suspect you would still derive your one "truth" without the bible or any religion. If someone really needs a book ghost written by the holy poltergeist to treat other people well, then one has to wonder if they are genuinely good at all to begin with.

As a current/lifelong practicing Catholic, I am sure that my views and beliefs have been influenced by my education (including 12 years of Catholic school) as well as attending weekly mass - but it also includes the rest of my life experiences in toto. And it is also true that I more than likely see "facts" in the bible/religion that mirror those views/beliefs, and "metaphor" where they do not. So perhaps my use of the term "personal choice" is inaccurate, and a better way to state what I was trying to say is that they are based on "personal experiences and predilections".

Of course, since my beliefs are the byproduct of that upbringing, I can't say for sure if my idea of "truth" would be the same or different without my exposure to the bible and religion...that being the case, however, I hope that I am judged more by how I live my life and treat others (regardless as to whether my beliefs were derived from the bible/religion or not).

Thank you again for your reply and for the opportunity to discuss this with you.

Wishing you well and peace

Tim

Which also happens to be the exact same position as a familiar (former?) Catholic.

Kind of ironic because the bible includes a number of contradictions. Every time the bible is busted the answer is well that's not really supposed to be taken literally. If you ask how they know what's supposed to be taken literally and what isn't they don't have anything remotely resembling an answer.

With metaphor, anything is possible. Jesus said that, metaphorically of course.

"rightly dividing the Word" 2 Timothy 2: 15.

That's the standard dismissal.