Religion
Related: About this forumMoses and the Passover story is pure myth
The Hebrew people were never slaves in Egypt. There was never an exodus and Moses was not a real person.
A combination of myths and stories, primarily from Babylon, make up the origins of this fairy tale.
And haven been brought up Jewish, I can tell you, most Jewish people don't look at this as just allegory.
And belief in this myth has very real world consequences.
And yes, this of all days is when we should talk about it.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)It's really about getting drunk and having a difficult time finding the nearest White Castle.
edhopper
(34,660 posts)was about?
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)You know there's one around... but can't remember where you saw it. Maybe Naperville?
trotsky
(49,533 posts)"GOLDEN COW BLASPHEMER!!!!!"
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)MineralMan
(147,334 posts)It was caught on someone's cell phone or something. I saw it for myself in the documentary film, decades ago.
And the plagues? Well, those are recorded on some tomb somewhere in Egypt. It just hasn't been discovered yet.
Yeah, that's the ticket...
guillaumeb
(42,649 posts)It wasnt until a much later source of the Exodusthe so-called priestly source, some 400 years laterthat the number 603,550 males was added to the story.
https://reformjudaism.org/exodus-not-fiction
This is a loaded question. Although Biblical scholars and archaeologists argue about various aspects of Israels Exodus from Egypt, many of them agree that the Exodus occurred in some form or another.
The question Did the Exodus happen then becomes When did the Exodus happen? This is another heated question. Although there is much debate, most people settle into two camps: They argue for either a 15th-century B.C.E. or 13th-century B.C.E. date for Israels Exodus from Egypt.
https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-topics/exodus/exodus-fact-or-fiction/
Sometimes we see what we want to see because it supports our personal beliefs.
And sometimes we ignore what is available to see because it conflicts with our personal beliefs.
If you believe that Moses was a fictional character, and that there was no Exodus, nothing I or anyone here says is likely to convince you otherwise.
Voltaire2
(14,632 posts)and for exodus, there is none.
guillaumeb
(42,649 posts)And publish your refutation in a journal.
Voltaire2
(14,632 posts)is ridiculous. You know that right? You don't? Really G? C'mon.
Major Nikon
(36,899 posts)Meanwhile...
There is an almost universal consensus among scholars that the Exodus story is best understood as myth;[26] more specifically, it is a "charter" (or foundation) myth, a story told to explain a society's origins and to provide the ideological foundation for its culture and institutions.[1] While a few scholars continue to discuss the potential historicity or plausibility of the Exodus story, for historians of ancient Israel it is no longer seen as viable and archaeologists have abandoned it as "a fruitless pursuit" (Dever, 2001).[27][28] There is no indication that the Israelites ever lived in Ancient Egypt, and the Sinai Peninsula shows almost no sign of any occupation for the entire 2nd millennium BCE (even Kadesh-Barnea, where the Israelites are said to have spent 38 years, was uninhabited prior to the establishment of the Israelite monarchy).[29] In contrast to the absence of evidence for the Egyptian captivity and wilderness wanderings, there are ample signs of Israel's evolution within Canaan from native Canaanite roots.[30][31]
But yeah, you can't even begin to refute the tiny minority of scholars that continue to pretend there's even the remotest possibility the exodus story isn't complete and utter bullshit as evidenced by the most biased of sources. So there.
MineralMan
(147,334 posts)"There is no evidence against" is the same as saying "There is no evidence for." There is no evidence, period.
A claim that something occurred requires evidence that it did. If there is no evidence, one cannot claim that it ever happened.
English. Sometimes statements written in that language are clear. This is one of those times.
Major Nikon
(36,899 posts)Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)edhopper
(34,660 posts)that the Hebrews were in Egypt anywhere near that time. And we KNOW that Egyptian slavery was more like indentured to work while not farming. It was nothing like that portrayed in the OT. The Egyptians recorded near everything, yet this mass rebellion and exodus escaped their notice.
But in Babylon, when these stories were originated, there was that form of slavery.
And lik Noah and other tales, this one resemples a Babylonian myth.
Like much of the Bilble, much evindence against, little to none supporting.
Citing that the Bible used real names and places is laughable.
MineralMan
(147,334 posts)someone else wants to be true. It's kind of like quoting from a website that advocates for homeopathic medicine as evidence that homeopathy is real and true.
Advocacy websites are never good sources of information. They advocate for things, so their bias is clearly toward whatever that website advocates for.
If you want information you will like about religion, you can go to religionnews.com to bolster your argument. Never mind that there is a strong bias there. If you want information about the Egyptian captivity, you can go to a biblearchaeology website and it will tell you that you are correct and that there was such a captivity. Bias.
The Internet is chock-full of biased websites with a story to tell and something to sell. You can find anything you want to support any idea you might have, no matter how cockamamie that idea is.
Advocacy websites fool lots of people lots of the time, because they confirm their visitors biases. "It must be true, because it agrees with me."
That is how "There is no evidence that the captivity did not occur" gets translated, somehow into "The captivity did occur, because there is no evidence that it did not." Which gets translated into, "Authorities confirm that the captivity occurred." Of course, it also means, "There is no evidence to support the Egyptian captivity."
It's advocacy and confirmation bias at work. Oldest thing in the book (or the website).
Major Nikon
(36,899 posts)...despite genetic proof they aren't. Once again...
uriel1972
(4,261 posts)Ancient Aliens haven't visited Earth... So, ANCIENT ALIENS!
This is a game we can all play
uriel1972
(4,261 posts)The Pharaoh decides to let the Hebrews free, but God hardens his heart overnight, so God can send a new suffering to the Egyptians.
Plus isn't Passover celebrating the fact that the Hebrew first-born were spared the death plague that killed all the Egyptian first-born? or am missing something.
All in all if it's true it's nasty, if it's a metaphor, what's it a metaphor of?
Voltaire2
(14,632 posts)I am the Atheist Passover Curmudgeon at Seder who cannot shut up when the alleged god allegedly deliberately inflicts horrendous suffering on innocents for no fucking reason whatsoever other than to show the pharaoh that he is a much bigger dick than pharaoh can ever be, and he has made this pharaoh stubborn just so he has the opportunity to inflict woe and demonstrate mightyness.
And that is the question nobody answers after they utter "it's just a metaphor". A metaphor for what? Huh?
Ugh.
Major Nikon
(36,899 posts)Argie-bargie!
Major Nikon
(36,899 posts)Get ready for an incredible story about Metaphorical Jesus