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MineralMan

(147,334 posts)
Sat Jun 8, 2019, 10:34 AM Jun 2019

Closing Catholic parishes is painful - but somebody has to do it

In case anyone was wondering, the Roman Catholic Church in the United States is having a big, big problem. And that problem isn't just limited to the USA, either. People are leaving the church. For what? I don't know, but they are leaving. It's starting to look like something that can't be turned around, actually. The article below lays out some of the numbers (in boldface) for the US Northeast and Midwest. Take a look and ponder this dilemma the RCC is facing. Maybe its time is just flat running out.

https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2018/05/18/closing-parishes-painful-theres-better-way-do-it

Closing parishes is painful—but there’s a better way to do it.

Like many Catholics across the Northeast and Midwest, parishioners in Pittsburgh are adjusting to a difficult new reality. On April 28 Bishop David A. Zubik announced plans to reduce the diocese’s 188 parishes to 57 by 2023. The parish closings follow years of falling Mass attendance—the diocese reports it is down by more than 40 percent since 2000—and decreased participation in the sacraments. The number of priests in the diocese is also expected to fall from 200 today to 112 in 2025.

This situation is not unique to Pittsburgh. The Archdiocese of Hartford is in the process of merging dozens of parishes and expects its 212 parishes to be consolidated into 85 over the next decade. Last year, the Archdiocese of Chicago, where an estimated 240 priests will be available to serve as pastors in 2030, launched “Renew My Church,” a major consolidation and renewal initiative for its 351 parishes.

Parish closures and mergers are painful, as anyone knows who has seen the doors close on the church where they were married or were baptized as a child. Parishioners feel they have lost their spiritual homes. But too often, coverage of these plans fails to recognize the severe constraints dioceses confront. Many of these churches were built at a time when seminaries were full or when it made sense to have clusters of ethnic parishes serving waves of new immigrants. Today, the church does not have the personnel to staff these parishes or the resources to maintain their properties. According to the Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate at Georgetown University, in 1965 there were 1,289 parishioners per priest; that ratio is now 2,600 to 1; 20 percent of parishes lack a resident pastor, compared with 5 percent 50 years ago.




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Closing Catholic parishes is painful - but somebody has to do it (Original Post) MineralMan Jun 2019 OP
Probably more are realizing the hoax IMO. n/t RKP5637 Jun 2019 #1
Could be, or discovering that the church is no longer relevant MineralMan Jun 2019 #2
Yes, definitely the latter! n/t RKP5637 Jun 2019 #4
This situation isn't unique to the Catholic church. The Velveteen Ocelot Jun 2019 #3
While that's true, most other denominations aren't as centrally controlled MineralMan Jun 2019 #5
That is not true of all Protestant denominations. murielm99 Jun 2019 #6
Thanks. I stand corrected. MineralMan Jun 2019 #8
The Episcopal and Lutheran churches are also centrally controlled. The Velveteen Ocelot Jun 2019 #7
Thanks for that info. MineralMan Jun 2019 #9
There is more central control than people realize as well. murielm99 Jun 2019 #12
The Episcopal church is centrally controlled for the most part. The Velveteen Ocelot Jun 2019 #13
Overall, yes Major Nikon Jun 2019 #14
Same thing is happening in STLMO too. The church has sold off old properties, some of which... SWBTATTReg Jun 2019 #10
Thanks for the info! MineralMan Jun 2019 #11
It also happens with schools. n/t Igel Jun 2019 #15
Are people leaving schools because of anti-LGBT bigotry? trotsky Jun 2019 #18
The RCC's assets should be seized using Voltaire2 Jun 2019 #16
It may come to that at some point. MineralMan Jun 2019 #17

MineralMan

(147,334 posts)
2. Could be, or discovering that the church is no longer relevant
Sat Jun 8, 2019, 10:47 AM
Jun 2019

to their lives. I suspect the latter is more common.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(120,154 posts)
3. This situation isn't unique to the Catholic church.
Sat Jun 8, 2019, 10:48 AM
Jun 2019

Other denominations (maybe most of them) built a lot of churches years ago, and for many of the same reasons cited in the article. But now the buildings, built in the late 19th or early 20th century, are deteriorating and have become expensive to maintain, while their members have either stopped attending church altogether or are going to the big, fancy non-denominational mega-churches that have popped up everywhere. These churches are more like movie theatres or sports arenas, seat a thousand or more people, and have all the latest audio-visual bells and whistles. They are attractive to people with short attention spans and who revel in bad pop music, lots of noisy audience participation opportunities, plus the pastors' promises that they'll become rich as a symbol that God loves them (as long as they contribute generously to the needs of the church and its pastor). What the RCC and other traditional denominations lose in membership is being gained by the Prosperity Gospel crowd.

MineralMan

(147,334 posts)
5. While that's true, most other denominations aren't as centrally controlled
Sat Jun 8, 2019, 11:00 AM
Jun 2019

as the RCC. Typically, for protestant churches, each church is owned by its congregation. If that congregation slips in membership, there may simply not be enough people to support the costs of keeping that church open. That's especially true of that particular church needs substantial renovations due to the age of its building or other factors.

Mega churches often don't have that disadvantage. Often, they are located in former commercial properties which have lots of space, but not much character. Sometimes, they're owned by the congregation, and sometimes the church is in leased property. Instead of a shrinking congregation, many of those, through more attractive services, etc., are growing in size.

But, the RCC owns its buildings collectively. They belong to the diocese, in most cases, or the archdiocese. When revenues drop from a parish, for whatever reason, there is a financial imbalance, and churches with larger congregations find themselves paying for churches with shrinking congregations, but increasing costs. So, we have parish mergers or just shutdowns of parish churches.

The central organization structure makes such shrinking more obvious and affects the entire organization, rather than just one, independently owned church.

murielm99

(31,397 posts)
6. That is not true of all Protestant denominations.
Sat Jun 8, 2019, 11:19 AM
Jun 2019

The United Methodist Church owns all the church buildings, even if they were financed and built by the local congregation. There are other denominations who have the same setup. I believe the Episcopalians have gone to court over this. Presbyterians do not own their churches locally, either.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(120,154 posts)
7. The Episcopal and Lutheran churches are also centrally controlled.
Sat Jun 8, 2019, 11:20 AM
Jun 2019

The Lutherans went on a building spree in the late '50s and early '60s (they seemed to favor Brutalism, and wound up with a lot of butt-ugly churches). I believe their churches are owned or at least controlled by the congregations, but if a congregation dissolves, the church reverts back to the synod. The Episcopal church operates more like the Catholic church the sense that the buildings belong to the diocese and not to the individual congregation, and the diocese has the authority to disband a congregation and sell the church (I know of one recent instance of that situation; the beautiful old church is now a performing arts center - where I will be attending a recital this afternoon).

Megachurches are a scourge - architecturally, artistically and socially.

murielm99

(31,397 posts)
12. There is more central control than people realize as well.
Sat Jun 8, 2019, 11:27 AM
Jun 2019

It is true of Lutherans, Methodists and Church of the Brethren. I don't know how Episcopalians handle things, but I have a hunch they are centrally controlled.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(120,154 posts)
13. The Episcopal church is centrally controlled for the most part.
Sat Jun 8, 2019, 11:31 AM
Jun 2019

There are dioceses that manage local churches, a governing body for the entire denomination, and there's also an Archbishop (the guy who spoke at Meghan and Harry's wedding), though I think his position is more spiritual than managerial.

Major Nikon

(36,899 posts)
14. Overall, yes
Sat Jun 8, 2019, 04:54 PM
Jun 2019

However around where I live in North Texas they are still building big ones. You have to remember this is an area where the likes of Copeland still has lots of sheep that need shearing.

SWBTATTReg

(24,001 posts)
10. Same thing is happening in STLMO too. The church has sold off old properties, some of which...
Sat Jun 8, 2019, 11:26 AM
Jun 2019

have been converted for other purposes. At least they're not letting them sit down abandoned and unprotected as they did at one time, in other parts of the city (stained glass windows broken etc.).

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
18. Are people leaving schools because of anti-LGBT bigotry?
Mon Jun 10, 2019, 08:35 AM
Jun 2019

Are people leaving schools because they protect and enable rapists?

Voltaire2

(14,632 posts)
16. The RCC's assets should be seized using
Sun Jun 9, 2019, 01:30 PM
Jun 2019

civil forfeiture, as assets of a criminal enterprise.

The proceeds should then be transferred to a trust fund to compensate the victims of abuse.

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