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AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
Tue Jun 11, 2019, 11:49 AM Jun 2019

Chamarro vs Dignity Health -catholic interference in the US HealthCare system.

https://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-dignity-ucsf-catholic-healthcare-20190419-story.html
https://www.aclunc.org/our-work/legal-docket/chamorro-v-dignity-health-religious-refusals

This case started a couple years ago, but litigation is beginning now.


THIS is how the RCC plans to get around Roe vs Wade in case overturn is impossible. Can't get services they don't offer. So the plan is simple; acquire all health care practices, or joint operation agreements, or joint billing systems, and simply refuse to offer the service.
32 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Chamarro vs Dignity Health -catholic interference in the US HealthCare system. (Original Post) AtheistCrusader Jun 2019 OP
I have also posted about this before. guillaumeb Jun 2019 #1
There are barely any public hospitals anywhere. Act_of_Reparation Jun 2019 #3
Your contribution to dialogue? eom guillaumeb Jun 2019 #5
Your failure to recognize instruction is an ongoing issue. Act_of_Reparation Jun 2019 #6
So the people who live in those areas are just fucked, then? trotsky Jun 2019 #4
The alternative is to open public hospitals. eom guillaumeb Jun 2019 #8
Wow, such compassion and empathy for the people who are denied their medical choices. trotsky Jun 2019 #9
You DO recognize that what I wrote is the obvious answer, correct? guillaumeb Jun 2019 #10
No, it's not the obvious answer. And fuck your narrative bullshit. Knock it the fuck off already. trotsky Jun 2019 #11
Yes, the narrative meme. guillaumeb Jun 2019 #12
I said fuck your narrative bullshit. trotsky Jun 2019 #13
Eloquence. guillaumeb Jun 2019 #15
You get exactly the replies you have earned. trotsky Jun 2019 #17
More framing. guillaumeb Jun 2019 #18
You've painted the awful picture yourself. trotsky Jun 2019 #21
Self awareness is critical to an observer. guillaumeb Jun 2019 #22
Which is why many people frame your arguments properly, to help you become more self-aware. trotsky Jun 2019 #23
As I expected. eom guillaumeb Jun 2019 #26
Good. trotsky Jun 2019 #30
No, you wrote the obvious ideal situation. Act_of_Reparation Jun 2019 #14
We do have public hospitals. guillaumeb Jun 2019 #16
Less than 1/3 of them. Act_of_Reparation Jun 2019 #19
Very true. guillaumeb Jun 2019 #20
Even IF we had the political will, building a hospital takes time. trotsky Jun 2019 #24
What do you tell them? guillaumeb Jun 2019 #27
I tell them the RCC hurt them overnight. Because in most cases, it did. trotsky Jun 2019 #31
No, the alternative is to remove the privilege from religion-owned hospitals. MineralMan Jun 2019 #25
If most hospitals are owned by various religious orders, guillaumeb Jun 2019 #28
No, it doesnt. MineralMan Jun 2019 #29
What a horrific answer edhopper Jun 2019 #32
But everywhere there are states. States have laws. AtheistCrusader Jun 2019 #7
They seek total control. If they can't get it one way, they'll try another way. MineralMan Jun 2019 #2

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
3. There are barely any public hospitals anywhere.
Tue Jun 11, 2019, 01:51 PM
Jun 2019

But continue. I look forward to how you will next demonstrate your unfamiliarity with the healthcare system.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
4. So the people who live in those areas are just fucked, then?
Tue Jun 11, 2019, 02:58 PM
Jun 2019

And will be forced to abide by Catholic rules when it comes to their healthcare options?

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
9. Wow, such compassion and empathy for the people who are denied their medical choices.
Thu Jun 20, 2019, 07:15 AM
Jun 2019

You are truly an amazing Christian, g.

guillaumeb

(42,649 posts)
10. You DO recognize that what I wrote is the obvious answer, correct?
Thu Jun 20, 2019, 01:06 PM
Jun 2019

On the other hand, you are consistent in your tactics in support of your narrative.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
11. No, it's not the obvious answer. And fuck your narrative bullshit. Knock it the fuck off already.
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 08:07 AM
Jun 2019

The obvious answer is that churches should not be able to use their religious dogma to deny healthcare options to others.

When the pregnant woman comes to the door bleeding and in danger of dying unless she's given an abortion, you can bravely stand up and tell her that she should go build her own hospital. You'll be a hero, guillaumeb. The hero the poor persecuted Christian majority needs. Fuck me.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
13. I said fuck your narrative bullshit.
Mon Jun 24, 2019, 07:09 AM
Jun 2019

Your position on this is dripping with religious privilege and shows absolutely ZERO compassion for those who need treatment that goes against the RCC's dogma.

I fully understand, therefore, why you insist on trying to talk about "narratives" instead of defending that.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
17. You get exactly the replies you have earned.
Tue Jun 25, 2019, 12:44 PM
Jun 2019

You dehumanize and smear groups of people by calling them "a choir" that's in "harmony". You imply they aren't thinking for themselves by claiming they mindlessly follow a fictional "11th commandment."

You spread hatred and discord and anger.

You get exactly the replies you have earned.

guillaumeb

(42,649 posts)
18. More framing.
Tue Jun 25, 2019, 12:47 PM
Jun 2019

And more revelation of what you see as dialogue, and how you see the Religion Group.

Do you think no one outside of the small group notices?

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
21. You've painted the awful picture yourself.
Tue Jun 25, 2019, 01:56 PM
Jun 2019

Don't blame the people who simply put a frame around it to credit you properly.

And I have no idea who notices or cares. I'm not doing this for an audience, like you claim to be.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
23. Which is why many people frame your arguments properly, to help you become more self-aware.
Tue Jun 25, 2019, 02:43 PM
Jun 2019

Good luck with that.

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
14. No, you wrote the obvious ideal situation.
Mon Jun 24, 2019, 07:40 AM
Jun 2019

We don't have public hospitals, and we're not going to get them any time soon. In the meantime, Catholic hospitals could be required to, you know, do their fucking jobs.

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
19. Less than 1/3 of them.
Tue Jun 25, 2019, 12:53 PM
Jun 2019

Not everyone has the resources to go shopping for a hospital. Not everyone has the resources to travel long distances to get treatment there. Not everyone has the luxury of waiting for a public hospital to be built near them.

We do have the luxury of setting terms for religious hospitals that receive public funding (like, you know, pretty much all of them).

guillaumeb

(42,649 posts)
20. Very true.
Tue Jun 25, 2019, 12:57 PM
Jun 2019

And we have the rich, and big business, both paying the lowest taxes in 75 years.

So given that, it is obvious that the political will is lacking to fix the problem.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
24. Even IF we had the political will, building a hospital takes time.
Tue Jun 25, 2019, 02:44 PM
Jun 2019

There are women who need reproductive care NOW.

What do you tell them?

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
31. I tell them the RCC hurt them overnight. Because in most cases, it did.
Wed Jun 26, 2019, 07:07 AM
Jun 2019

The RCC takes over a hospital, and literally overnight they change policy.

WHAT DO YOU TELL THOSE WOMEN, GUILLAUMEB?

The RCC created the crisis by ceasing services that the hospital previously provided.

WHAT DO YOU TELL THOSE WOMEN, GUILLAUMEB?

MineralMan

(147,334 posts)
25. No, the alternative is to remove the privilege from religion-owned hospitals.
Tue Jun 25, 2019, 02:46 PM
Jun 2019

No religion should be able to dictate what healthcare they will offer. That is obscene, especially if a church-owned hospital is the only one available.

Pass laws. If the church can't follow them, let the church get out of the hospital business altogether. That would be my suggestion to solve the problem in any case. Provide everyone with legal healthcare or you may not own a hospital. Period.

The Roman Catholic Church should not be allowed to dictate what health care is delivered in an area. Not a chance.

A hospital is not a church. The RCC should limit its restrictions on healthcare services to its religious institutions, not hospitals that are open to the public.

Feh!

guillaumeb

(42,649 posts)
28. If most hospitals are owned by various religious orders,
Tue Jun 25, 2019, 07:28 PM
Jun 2019

that indicates that the private sector has failed to build public hospitals.

edhopper

(34,660 posts)
32. What a horrific answer
Thu Jun 27, 2019, 08:04 AM
Jun 2019

you don't condemn the Catholic Hospitals for their denial of basic health care to people.

And then you say the answer is a politically questionable solution that would be years away, if at all.

Some of these areas are in States that would not even allow the expansion of Medicaid.

How many women's deaths do you think acceptable while your "solution" comes about?

in case you were wondering what the answer is , religion exemptions to health services can't be allowed.

MineralMan

(147,334 posts)
2. They seek total control. If they can't get it one way, they'll try another way.
Tue Jun 11, 2019, 01:05 PM
Jun 2019

When I was just a lad, back in the early 1960s, the Catholic Church had bullied California legislatures into making contraceptives virtually illegal to sell for contraceptive purposes. Every package containing a condom was labeled:

FOR THE PREVENTION OF DISEASE ONLY!

They could only be sold by pharmacists and only to people over the age of 21.

Finally, a couple of years after I got out of high school, those laws went away, the birth control pill became available, and young people were freed from panic over an unwanted pregnancy.

Now, they're trying a backdoor move to do the same all over again.

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