Foxes in the hen house, at the very least. Turn the entire investigation over to the law enforcement community.

Under normal circumstances, what are the odds a single, random individual is a child abuser?

This is either a stunning fluke of probability, or the Church has a serious fucking problem.

The problem is so widespread and universal that it is obviously an organizational norm. It cannot be fixed from inside the organization, in that case. That's my assessment, after all these years and all those abused children. Bring in the prosecutors and give them total access. They'll flush it all out.

Either that or shut the entire thing down.

That is precisely true, but also why the RCC will never try anything else. They have always viewed themselves as apart from and above ANY secular authority. That belief is a fundamental part of the RCC DNA. So no, it will never get fixed.

sexual abuse by its clergy. The secrecy, the single gender makeup of the clergy, the excessive power held by priests, and the secondary, subservient role of women in the organization set up a perfect storm for sexual abuse of children. It's almost as though someone created the organizational structure for just such a purpose.

Who better to catch child rapists than a child rapist?

Or it could be they just absolutely don't give a fuck. And why would they considering they have so many child rape apologists working overtime to convince the rank in file and the public this is simply a matter of demonic infiltration and is in no way inherent to organized religion.

they have to outside law enforcement officials. Because any self-investigation looks like self-preservation. It's terrible.

I don't fully trust law enforcement to dole out justice for forty year old crimes, but at least they're independent and not self-serving.

Rotten to the core.

Who will watch the watchers?

No matter the institutional setting, any abuse is horrible. And covering up the abuse is equally horrible.

both are true. Some like to watch, besides.

And it's all doing the work of God, see, so there you are...

Institutional cover ups are an integral part of the problem of predators existing in institutional settings.

The RCC protects its own, even its predators. In so doing, it makes itself a hypocritical liar. All in the name of Jesus.

You do yours. I'll do mine and have none of yours, thanks.

It is human behavior, and sadly, not unique to any one class of humans.

I did not say it was unique in any way. I did say that it is corrupt, however, and have said that many times.

It should be disbanded forthwith.

Including the family, the place where much abuse occurs?

And the school system as well?

And the military?

I understand that these questions weaken your narrative, but they are obvious questions to ask.

Once that happens, there is no possibility of discussion.

That is where the illogic started.

And that the same cover ups exist?

to be in the service of God makes them no different than any criminal enterprise.
So appearantly, belief and living for God does not make anyone any better than a nonbeliever.
Why all this obsession with faith and sin and prayer when people involved are no better than those not?

I do not expect anything different, but I do expect, or hope, that anyone with knowledge of a child abuser would report that knowledge to the authorities.

But people conceal things. Family members conceal abuse, institutional members do so as well.

As to the "criminal enterprise" rhetoric, the purpose of the RCC is not to abuse children, or to commit crimes, so your analogy fails.

The purpose of the GOP is not to enable treason, but that is what they do.
The commitment to God has not made them better thasn any other group.
So in a blind study, belief in God is ineffective in making a group or person better.
God has no positive effect.

Both in its extent (worldwide) and its lack of secular oversight.

But I understand why you would rather whatabout.

But I understand your need to promote your narrative.

Much abuse occurs in the family, which exists worldwide and has no effective secular oversight.

Child abuse is everywhere. The family, schools, scouting organizations, the military, and anywhere there are children and pedophiles.

the problem would not be so wide spread.

Child abuse is everywhere. The religion of the abusers, or lack thereof, is of no consequence to the abused child.

What is more or less unique to the RCC is the systemic nature of said abuse.

It is when the religion promotes the notion that the priest class is above secular law.

But you never want to acknowledge that. I wonder why?

Look at Trump defenders - they do the same thing. If confronted with his illegal behavior, they'll scream "But Obama! But Hillary! Benghazi! BUTTERY MALES!!!!!"

They can't defend Trump's unique and excessive corruption, so they flail wildly as if any kind of corruption, real or imagined, done by other politicians makes Trump's crimes no big deal. "Everybody does it."

As I posted above, I have seen the GOP/RCC parrallel.

I understand why you do not want to talk about those issues, and would rather try to lump it under "everybody abuses."

Or the concept of the secrecy of the confessional?

I've explained exactly why the RCC's abuse problem is unique, multiple times.

You've never, ever addressed ANY of my arguments, but instead just play this game over and over.

Let me know when you really want to discuss the issue.

So there is that.

Are you truly surprised that humans behave in this way no matter where they exist?

If so, why?

The teachings and practices of your (former?) church help enable child abusers. By setting up the church hierarchy to be "above" secular law, they make the problem WORSE. Do you agree or disagree? I bet you won't answer. You'll just whatabout some more.

a conclusion. Hardly an example of using the scientific method.

And this insistence on restricting the dialogue is present in your latest example of posing a question that is actually a statement of your own opinion.

You mean wanting to discuss the particular aspects of Religion in the Religion group?

Guilty as charged.

No, guillaumeb, it's YOU who wants to limit the discussion here. Fortunately you are terrible at it, and only end up making yourself look like a religious hypocrite.

I'm a practicing Roman Catholic and a believer, so I'm going to say this with as much respect as I can muster.

We all know that abuse happens world wide.

The RCC is a holy institution and purports that it is directly descended from the apostles of Jesus.

Yet, we've historically enablied those abusers to continue their abuse. It is SHOCKING and infuriating.

We deserve all the intense heat we have gotten for it, and it's time to demand that we clean out our house.

When our community is seriously challenged by it's own history of culpability in child abuse, talking about other people doing it too doesn't help anybody.

I love my chuch. I love my community. I love Jesus. I love God. I love so much about my faith.

I hate that it's been corrupted by pedophiles, and I hate that the public is RIGHTFULLY enraged by it.

suggesting that the RCC is uniquely culpable is illogical.

it is "whataboutism" to talk about how the rest of society does it, too.

That doesn't mitigate our responsibility to our church, our flock, and making reparations for what was done, ignored, enabled, and covered up.

The biggest threat do the RCC doesn't come from OUTSIDE the church. Most damage inflicted was from within.

I think it's really really important for us to remember and to have humility about it.

And it is not diversion to note that abuse and cover-ups are a constant. Diversion would be to note these things in an attempt to excuse them.

...from harming children and/or covering up the crime(s).

Maybe this is all caused by a reliance on 'faith'.

DiMarzio has always been beaurocratic. He doesn't have the personality of Cardinal Dolan. He's NYC's second banana bishop

Having said that, I was surprised at Mass yesterday. I expected our priest to ignore the accusation. But at the end of Mass he read a letter written by DiMarzio. DiMarzio asked that it be read during every single mass that weekend. It, of course, denied the accusations, but I was somewhat surprised that he was meeting the accusation head on.

So, there is that.

Hopefully there will be a real investigation and the truth will come to light. Only through the light of truth can the darkness be chased away. If the accuser was victimized by the Bishop, I hope he receives real restitution.