that a truly nice, decent person-- who lives the tenets of Christ-- would, by comparison, certainly look like the messiah. Somehow, I doubt the kindly humble Fred Rogers would agree.

He was doing his best to follow the path.

What path?

could use the power of television to do good and reinforce his deeply held religious beliefs - without using religion overtly. Just the teachings.

Yet he had people on his show he knew to be gay; with no prejudice applied against them.. And he wanted blacks and minorities to be represented.

Those certainly weren't the practiced tenets of religion at the time (and certainly not now).

I'd like to know what "THE" path is, and how guillaumeb knows what it is.

Do you know what it is?

Yeah, it runs from squirrel hill to mount washington. There is a bus that can take you if you don't want to walk.

Sorry, not sure what you are really asking..... What does "the" path mean to you.....

Thanks for chiming in.

Is this how you promote dialogue?

Or are you only interested in attacking me?

I asked you a question. Will you answer, or attack?

The path of Christ. Jebus I’m an atheist and I know what he’s talking about. I suspect you do as well. So why the persistent trolling?

You'll note he is aware of the hypocrisy of referring to "the" path, because he won't respond, and instead engages in a personal attack on me. As you just did.

truly NICE person. An exceptional human being. There seem to be so few.

Everything else is about killing and superheroes and human monsters.

Clue: there are no superheroes. Only humans, good ones and bad ones, and the bad ones get all the ink.

Yes, there are only imperfect humans.

Some, like Trump, seem to deliberately choose to be negative. And that is so sad, and such a waste of potential.

Sometimes people like Trump are taught to be negative.

Children who are abused by parents are more likely to grow up to be abusers themselves.

How much do they "choose" their behavior then?

All who are abused do not abuse.

We choose.

So clearly, the choice is not equally free for all to make.

So much for free will.

And anything is acceptable because free will does not exist?

then it's pretty conclusively demonstrated that free will (as you and most believers portray it) is an illusion.

Do you have evidence to the contrary?

I asserted that people choose to molest. And that not all who are molested behave that way toward others. If you assert that free will is an illusion, anything that anyone does is out of their control, correct?

If however, these factors might merely play a part in how people make their choices, that argues for free will.

However, people who were abused as children are statistically more likely to "choose" to abuse.

Why is that?

If free will is truly free, and everyone is equally likely to "choose" to abuse, then why are the children of abusers more likely to?

The clear answer is that we don't have truly "free" will. Our experiences shape us in many ways, they influence our decisions, and we don't control all of them.

And of course our experiences influence us. And, to my knowledge, no one here has argued that humans have unfettered free will.

We are not blank slates at birth.

And humans require a long period of socialization.

especially regarding twin studies and how they pretty much rule out tabula rasa models.

You sort of have. The problem is that you feel "unfettered" means that we would have the ability to fly if we chose, or ignore other such physical restrictions.

But that's not what I'm talking about, and you've never addressed this aspect. I'm talking about things we've experienced and things we've learned that affect us in ways we aren't consciously aware, and influence our decision-making. In other words, we are NOT all making the same "free" choice all the time.

Do you understand the distinction?

As to your second point, no one argues to the contrary here.

Or have you changed your position? Do you now acknowledge that factors outside of a person's control can influence their decisions, thus making their will not totally "free"?

Why is that?

Your questions are not difficult, they are simply unsupported by fact.

And with that, perhaps you should see the movie and give a review.

And the premise is unsupported.

Dialogue, contrary to what you are doing here, does not consist in mis-framing and accusing based on mis-framing. Your mis-framing is itself insulting to the subject of the insults. You obviously do not realize it. Or you do.

Is that really the best you can do?

If I mis-framed, then explain how I mis-framed. Have you always acknowledged that factors outside our control can affect our decision-making, thus restricting our free will?

But it does demonstrate your professed commitment to dialogue.

I'm asking the question on your new terms. Will you answer it now? Or insult me some more?

Be the Christian you want the world to see, g.

But regulars here have seen this so often that it is, sadly, expected now. So many no longer post here in this Group because of the atmosphere.

You could start by answering my simple question.

Turn the page. Let's change things. Let's dialog. I am willing - are you?

Interesting position.

It does however call into serious question punishment theories of criminal justice, and of course christian theology.

can anyone truly be guilty?

Anti social people aren’t evil or bad or sinners. They have behavior problems that may require isolation from society, and perhaps rehabilitative training. Like a dog that shits in the house. Beating the dog or the person accomplishes nothing

his ass.

That'll fix everything. Religion is totally necessary and makes everything better, doesn't it?

either that or hbo. I'm not sure which but it is up now; I saw at a relatives house recently. I haven't seen the movie but the documentary was very well done.

Thank you for the suggestion.

Just like that Jesus fellow, if he existed. There is no Messiah.

Why can't we accept reality instead of making up superheroes?

Better really when you consider there’s a much better record of his acts.

If heaven is a state of mind, rather than a place. one might argue that Rogers found heaven.

My husband isn’t wild about going with me but he promised. I anticipate bawling through the whole thing. I think Fred Rogers might be one of the best people I ever came across. I got to meet him when I was 10 and my family was invited to the Kennedy home, Hickory Hill, in 1974. Mr. Rogers was there to hang with the kids. I remember being mesmerized by him. All the kids were. It just felt good to be near him and listen to him.

Thanks for sharing your story!

I never actually watched the program, but I have read about his message.

Teachings are all about individual soul development as being how one qualifies to be exempt from the death cycle which is reincarnation. We are each our souls messiah.

Maybe he followed Christian teachings, rather than ignoring them, but I don't know. He was a good guy, though.