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edhopper

(34,660 posts)
Wed Apr 17, 2024, 11:03 AM Apr 2024

(Religion Group) The Case of the Exodus that didn't happen

As Jews gather all over the world to celebrate there Spring Festival, I find myself once again wondering at treating a fictional story and and a completely mythical man as if it was true.
The Haggadah is basically a long thank you note to God for rescuing the Jewish people from Israel, while bringing unspeakable torment down on the Egyptians. The only problem, there is not historical evidence that the Jews were ever in Egypt and the records do not support any slavery like that described in the Bible there.
The best explanation is this tale was a combination of Babylonian myth and colored by the Jewish slavery in Babylon. Fully a thousand years after the story of Moses supposedly occurred.
But like reciting the Night Before Christmas as if Santa really visited all the boys and girls. Jewish people repeat this story every year as a confirmation of how much God loves them.

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(Religion Group) The Case of the Exodus that didn't happen (Original Post) edhopper Apr 2024 OP
It's a celebration of freedom and a recognition of the evils of slavery unblock Apr 2024 #1
That is fine edhopper Apr 2024 #2
Thanking god for delivering us from slavery is not the same as just god loves us generally unblock Apr 2024 #3
I hear you edhopper Apr 2024 #9
The wonderful celebration includes a genocide. Voltaire2 Apr 2024 #5
And it bad-mouths frogs. Really? a plague? Are frogs really that bad? unblock Apr 2024 #6
Slaughter of the first born. Voltaire2 Apr 2024 #7
Wow my pet frog is mightily insulted you just glossed right over that unblock Apr 2024 #8
I hear you about the frogs edhopper Apr 2024 #10
Especially because the God of free will edhopper Apr 2024 #11
As the Official Passover Curmudgeon Voltaire2 Apr 2024 #4

unblock

(54,085 posts)
1. It's a celebration of freedom and a recognition of the evils of slavery
Wed Apr 17, 2024, 11:28 AM
Apr 2024

It's not "a confirmation of how much he loves" us. God loving us generally strikes me as more of a Christian than a Jewish concept.

If you look at our history, the Jewish take is that god seems to love pissing all over us.

while the exodus story no doubt isn't 100% historically accurate, it's enough to just recognize that we were slaves at some point in the history of our people and to always remain grateful for our freedom and to have sympathy for those still enslaved.

edhopper

(34,660 posts)
2. That is fine
Wed Apr 17, 2024, 11:34 AM
Apr 2024

to take it that way. But I have been to too many seders and spent too much time in Hebrew school to believe most Jews just take it as allegory for a larger issue of slavery. Especially since slavery is condoned in the Bible over and over again and never condemned.
The amount of times God is praised suggests it is as I have described.

Therefore, we are obliged to thank, praise, laud, glorify, exalt, magnify, adore, and give eternal honor to the One who did all these miracles for us and for our ancestors. He took us out from slavery to freedom, from servitude to redemption, from sorrow to joy, from mourning to festivity, and from deep darkness to great light. [Therefore,] let us recite before Him: Halleluyah!

unblock

(54,085 posts)
3. Thanking god for delivering us from slavery is not the same as just god loves us generally
Wed Apr 17, 2024, 11:53 AM
Apr 2024

In any event, we clearly grew up with very different haggadahs.

Unsurprising, as my parents and aunts and uncles stitched ours together from a number of progressive haggadahs and added some modern poems and folks songs....

Buncha hippie atheists sitting around singing songs and reciting torah texts and eating bad food. Ah, good times.

edhopper

(34,660 posts)
9. I hear you
Wed Apr 17, 2024, 01:30 PM
Apr 2024

I still go to my cousin's seder. It's a time I can see family. I don't get into this, because I may be an atheist, but I am not an asshole.

Voltaire2

(14,632 posts)
5. The wonderful celebration includes a genocide.
Wed Apr 17, 2024, 12:00 PM
Apr 2024

Ignoring the fact that it is entirely fictional it is ethically deranged.

Voltaire2

(14,632 posts)
7. Slaughter of the first born.
Wed Apr 17, 2024, 12:16 PM
Apr 2024

Did they leave that out at your house?
It is an essential part of the myth.

unblock

(54,085 posts)
8. Wow my pet frog is mightily insulted you just glossed right over that
Wed Apr 17, 2024, 12:31 PM
Apr 2024

straight to the firstborn thing. Ok.

I thought it was all increasing punishments until pharaoh set the Jews free. I'm sure there was a lot of innocent deaths along the way. God is all powerful and perfect and good but pretty sloppy when it comes to revenge and punishment I guess.

Not so important that anyone died I don't think, just important that pharaoh was made to personally feel punishment. Through losing a child I guess. God is happy to throw away children's lives to make a point I suppose.

Voltaire2

(14,632 posts)
4. As the Official Passover Curmudgeon
Wed Apr 17, 2024, 11:59 AM
Apr 2024

I am obligated to point out that this story is both utterly fictional and genocidally hideous.
At this point both the mindless recital and my objections are a family ritual, and quite likely everyone else at the table wishes I would STFU. But I won’t. There is a new generation getting seated, they need to be advised.

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