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Has the Trinity always existed? Father, Son, Holy Spirit. (Original Post) keithbvadu2 Jun 2024 OP
No Ray Bruns Jun 2024 #1
Technically edhopper Jun 2024 #2
I found this; SweetT Jun 2024 #3
"My answer is speculative." True Dough Jun 2024 #9
I think it says: Yes. It is an artful work of obfuscation. Written to justify the desired ending vs find the ending. keithbvadu2 Jun 2024 #15
No dhol82 Jun 2024 #4
Yes SARose Jun 2024 #5
Always existed?...no 303squadron Jun 2024 #6
This message was self-deleted by its author pwb Jun 2024 #7
Plato wrote the famous allegory, Arne Jun 2024 #8
--- and do rabbits really come out'a that hat? 3Hotdogs Jun 2024 #10
And... what happens to a creator God when there is no creation (before-after)? sanatanadharma Jun 2024 #11
Sort of. Ocelot II Jun 2024 #12
The word dwelling in jesus doesnt necessarily mean that jesus was the word. Karadeniz Jun 2024 #18
No, it has never existed NoRethugFriends Jun 2024 #13
I think it was part of the absorption of the pagan cultures FirstLight Jun 2024 #14
It's a personification of God. patphil Jun 2024 #16
Father, son, holy spirit-James Brown, Michael Jackson, The Artist Formally Known as Prince. spike jones Jun 2024 #17
 

SweetT

(58 posts)
3. I found this;
Mon Jun 10, 2024, 09:20 AM
Jun 2024
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/explaining-the-trinity


Personally, it would seem a necessary aspect of God to be progenitor of ideal forms that manifest as being in the world. Ergo, one continual movement generating and spirating. My answer is speculative.

keithbvadu2

(39,862 posts)
15. I think it says: Yes. It is an artful work of obfuscation. Written to justify the desired ending vs find the ending.
Mon Jun 10, 2024, 10:29 AM
Jun 2024

… and now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory which I had with you before the world was made.

Notice, before the creation, the Son was “with” the Father. Also, the Son addressing the Father and himself in an “I/thou” relationship is unmistakable. We have distinct persons here. “Father” and “Son” reveal a generative relationship as well. Yet, this relationship between two persons clearly has no beginning in time because it existed before the creation, from all eternity. Thus, the relational distinction is real, and personal, but as far as nature is concerned, Jesus’ words from John 10:30 come to mind: “I and the Father are one,” in that they each possess the same infinite nature.

dhol82

(9,420 posts)
4. No
Mon Jun 10, 2024, 09:22 AM
Jun 2024

Not until the Council of Nicaea. Nicene Creed and then:


With this declaration in 381, which would become known as the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed, the Trinity as generally understood today became the official belief and teaching concerning the nature of God

SARose

(764 posts)
5. Yes
Mon Jun 10, 2024, 09:24 AM
Jun 2024

From the very beginning of the church, Christians have understood the mystery of the Trinity, even before they began using the term Trinity.

Snip

More

Council of Nicea 325 ad affirmed existence of Trinity.

303squadron

(670 posts)
6. Always existed?...no
Mon Jun 10, 2024, 09:30 AM
Jun 2024

Nor have any solo members of the group existed either.

I love the irony of the three when believers proclaim monotheism. It always reminds me of the old country song, "I'm my own Grandpa."

Response to keithbvadu2 (Original post)

3Hotdogs

(13,327 posts)
10. --- and do rabbits really come out'a that hat?
Mon Jun 10, 2024, 09:47 AM
Jun 2024

What about, can the guy make coins appear? If so, I wanna be his bff.

sanatanadharma

(4,071 posts)
11. And... what happens to a creator God when there is no creation (before-after)?
Mon Jun 10, 2024, 09:55 AM
Jun 2024

If the nature of God is tripartite, that nature must be eternal. A infinite-limitlessness can not be 'sometimes this' and 'at no time that'.
The vastly different natures of the biblical god-father and the god-son are seen in the wrathful vengeance of God vs the love from God.
Which nature is absolute and existent before, during, and after creation?

Attributes, qualities, adjectives are meant to distinguish one thing from another thing on the same order of reality; the red rose flower, not the lilac colored lily flower.
A 'one and only God' can-not-be compared to another 'one and only God.

God may have an essential nature, a irreducible identity*, but no qualities or attributes.
Indeed all that exists must essentially borrow 'existence' from the pre-existent.
Assuming that by God we mean a 'conscious-being', then our own 'conscious-existence can not be separate from that.

* Some posit that the essential nature of Divinity is a trinity of "Existence-Consciousness-Limitlessness"; a blissful-being, unlimited by any 'otherness' that could constrain the joy.

Homework challenge: Negate your own conscious existence. Show your work.

Ocelot II

(120,154 posts)
12. Sort of.
Mon Jun 10, 2024, 10:04 AM
Jun 2024

John I says: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. ... The Word became flesh and dwelt among us." As I understand it, this means that the Logos, "Word," means Jesus, the pre-existent second person of the Trinity. So God would have had to have created himself. The early Greek Christians who were trying to establish a coherent belief system had to consider the fact that if they deemed Jesus to be a god they wouldn't be monotheists any more, so they had to come up with a concept that Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit (which is a thing in Judaism, the influence of God over the world) were all one entity. Jesus had to be God or the concept didn't work, but Jesus didn't exist in the world until he was born as a human, then died (sort of) and went back to being pure God again.

No, I don't get it either.

Karadeniz

(23,342 posts)
18. The word dwelling in jesus doesnt necessarily mean that jesus was the word.
Mon Jun 10, 2024, 11:25 AM
Jun 2024

We all have a soul, but the human body will die while the soul lives on.

FirstLight

(13,880 posts)
14. I think it was part of the absorption of the pagan cultures
Mon Jun 10, 2024, 10:29 AM
Jun 2024

Many earlier religions were Matriarchial and the 'trinity' was Maiden/Mother/Crone

patphil

(6,889 posts)
16. It's a personification of God.
Mon Jun 10, 2024, 10:43 AM
Jun 2024

The Father is male.
The Holy Spirit is female.
The Son is their children.
It was presented this way so people could grasp the idea of creation as a process that they are part of; so they could link their physical life with their spiritual life.
In this simplistic form, it acknowledges the spirit within each of us.

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