Religion
Related: About this forumJesus: " . . . I will in no wise cast out." Really?
You might find this to be TL;DR.
I wanted to answer someone who posted a Christian salvation message, altar-call style, on Facebook. He wrapped it up with this:
John 6:37:
"All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." (KJV)
My life's experience proves that this is out and out bullshit.
When you've been saved as a child, and as a young adult you've become agnostic but still want to believe, and you want to sing, you sing in a church choir.
I made a friend in that choir. I felt close to her - not super close, but I trusted her. She seemed true. One day we were having coffee and in one of the most regrettable whims of my life, I came out to her. I felt no fear.
After our next rehearsal, the director caught my eye and waved me over. He told me that it had come to his attention that I was a homosexual. As such, he said, he knew that my claim to worship, as a member of this choir, was false. He dismissed me from the choir.
Having been rejected by a representative of Christ (as I saw the director), I left that church flat. I never went back.
So what's this bullshit about "him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out"? If this god knew my heart, he knew I was a true believer - questioning but studying, listening in church, contributing my thoughts in bible study - he would've known that singing in the church choir was an act of sincerity.
So why did he in fact cast me out via his representative?
This has been bugging me for months. I usually manage not to go off like this when I read altar call sermons on FB. This one is different - probably because my experience contradicts Christ's words. I will always hold my life's experience over words written eons ago, based on tales told over and over and coming through to future generations as clearly as a game of telephone.
RockRaven
(16,606 posts)"God didn't cast you out, you cast yourself out by doing X/choosing Y/not having faith in Z."
They've got nothing original; it is all tired, stale, re-used nonsense. And most of it isn't even from what was written way back when, most of it is some dickhead from in between times (who had some particular situation/agenda prompting his BS) who gets repeated ad nauseam by other dickheads for their own immediate agendas with a plea to prior authority, rinse and repeat.
Think. Again.
(19,738 posts)Not Heidi
(1,472 posts)Think. Again.
(19,738 posts)An insistance that supernatural gods exist and are running the petty details of everything in the universe, without any real indications that would lead a person to believe that, are pretty delusional.
Talk about a conspiracy theory!
GiqueCee
(1,584 posts)... in the name of religion than any other motivation in the history of humanity. I washed my hands of it 60 years ago, and have never regretted it. Some of the vilest people I have ever encountered were holier-than-thou sociopaths who wrapped their malice in the blood-soaked cloak of über-religiosity. They are utterly ruthless in their exploitation of those who are desperate to seek some sort of salvation through their misguided belief in an imaginary sky daddy.
Matter and energy is, was, and always will be.
anciano
(1,632 posts)Agreed.
"For all things are formed by Nature to change and be turned and to perish, in order that other things in continuous succession may exist." Marcus Aurelius
anciano
(1,632 posts)and identify with what you have experienced. But I was finally able to break free from the illusion (or should I say delusion) of this thing called religion. I believe that the complexity and precision of the creation we can observe by necessity requires the existence of an omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient eternal essence, and that essence has revealed itself to us mortals as the phenomenon we call Nature. Creation itself reveals to us all that we need to know as mortals.
Good luck and best wishes!
state of stupid
(89 posts)I use three state logic on the existence of God. Since I cannot prove one way or the other I
stay neutral until someone can prove it one way or the other. If I am forced to drop down to
two state logic I choose to follow science and things I can prove over things I cannot. Like
so many I tried church at a fairly young age and after three churches in around a year decided
it was not for me. I walked the aisle and all that stuff but was always made to feel like my
salvation had not worked. I tried to read the bible but was just too young to read it very good.
The reason I left the church was even with my limited reading ability I heard all promises and
all the hope that people cling to but that was just talk because they acted the opposite.
When I left there were some that might have been true to God's word, so I called them Faithful
Followers but the rest I called Pharisees. Both my father and mother were believers but not once
in my life did they ever go to church or pray or quote the bible or tell me or my brother about God.
I decided to tell my father what my problems with church were and he sat and listened and did not
say a word until I finished. He kind of gave that silent chuckle and then proceeded to tell me about
his responsibility as a father to me. He told he was trying to raise me so that when my time came
to leave his and make my house because he and my mother were not always going to be there for me.
He needed to teach me what real man was in my dealings with everything around me and my journey
thru life. The only thing he ever said about God was son, you may not find God in a church, so just walk
the path I am trying to put you on and if God thinks you are doing something wrong, he will come and
talk to you about it, but if he thinks you are ok why would he come talk to you? Made sense to me and
I never worried about it again. Over the years I finally heard by accident a preacher that by what I heard
helped me in very many ways. I was at a remote site running a test that took about an hour, went out
to vehicle to listen to music and while searching for a station heard a preacher on a rant about people
leaving the pews because of preachers causing confusion with bad teaching. The preacher he was
referring to were Moral Majority boys of the 70's and 80's. He said do not trust anyone who tries to tell
you what the bible says not even him. God says study to show yourself approved. It is not his job to
tell you what it says, his job is to teach you how to study. He recommended getting a Strong's
Concordance to study with. That is basically the book that helps you break down the words you do not
understand to something you can understand. For instance, judge not lest ye be judged becomes
condemn not lest ye be condemned. Also, you cannot understand what verse 20 means unless you
understand what the first 19 mean. It did not get me closer to God per se, but it did help me deal with
life in the just the common-sense everyday dealings with everything around me. For instance, you shall
know the truth and the truth shall set you free. How you use that in your spiritual life is your choice, but
in real life, the more truth I know the freer I am but be warned you may not like the truth, but the truth
does not care you either accept it or it will run over you. You cannot run from it because sooner or later
it will catch up to you. God did not invent religion as you see it today, men did that. The people who did
that to you sound more like the Pharisees I dealt with. I now call them true believers because as far as I
am concerned they have recreated their creator in their image making themselves God. Their relationship
with God is theirs. Your relationship with God is yours and yours alone. It is your personal relationship
that God desires. If you want to praise God, sing to God, dance for God or anything else. Do it, that is
your right to choose not there right to dictate. God will meet you where you are and accept you as you
are. I have never in my life ever regretted the decisions I have made on this issue. I know this is a little
long, but I do hope maybe it will help you a little. You sound a lot like my dearly departed wife who was
an absolute faithful follower with a heart of pure gold and the best thing that ever walked into my life.
I did for her what I suggest to you, that is how an agnostic, whatever that truly means married a
faithful follower and after the very last time I helped her deprogram herself from the true believers doing
to her what they may be doing to you, looked at me with that glow of God look and the tiniest wisp of a
smile and the only time she ever said anything after one of those sessions said "You know for an
agnostic you are the best Christian I have ever met". I felt like a snowball sitting next to a supernova
and just vaporized.