AO Spare craft is more original and of interest IMO.

Edit: I can't spell times two.

Everyone has their own path to walk. Not everyone is as good an artist as Austin Osman. If Gerald Gardner borrowed from Crowley then, well so what? That don't make that path any less valid. Personally, I enjoy the freedom that an unorganized religion offers with all its freethinking and experiences.

I am not much on religion at all but experience and mind; deny religion, but embrace awkwardly the divinity of nature.

The spiritual written and oral fruit of humankind is amusing and kind of a grown up science fiction or speculation or even inspiration.

I have the resource to play productively in this forum; favor Lao Tzu but can do other.

My only real concern was that there are Gardnerians that would disagree with your input that Gardner copied Crowley. May still happen. Anyway, we all value your input.

a genera or author that hits my fancy until too cost prohibited.

Gardner had an OTO charter from Crowley before they split and Gardner started his own path.

Think "Do what thou Will (or Wilt)" (which Crowley likely derived from Rabelais).

There was a fellow named IIRC something like Tim Mahroney (sp), a member of the OTO (and passed on 10 yrs or so ago), who did a presentation at a conference of his academic study comparing early Gardner writings with internal OTO material. There are cases of paragraphs lifted word for word from the older OTO material. The question was whether Crowley had ghost-written or Gardner had borrowed (and to my knowledge this is still not answered).

Adler, in Drawing Down the Moon, specifically quotes Doreen Valiente critcizing Gardner for unattributed Crowley quotes and ritual in his early books.

An example of Crowley ghost-writing were the first two best-selling books on astrology released in the 1920s as authored by Evangelina Adams which were her adaptations from a manuscript Adam's paid Crowley to produce. Adams brought astrology to American newspapers. Only in 2002, Weiser (under OTO copyright) published Crowley's manuscript as originally written and with comments about the history. Crowley said that everything anyone needed to know about astrology could be found in Dr. John Dee's Hieroglyphic Monad. He may have been joking. ;o)

even though I know you used it in a rather uncomplimentary manner. It is the term my daughter uses to describe herself. In 7th grade she read rather easily at a college level and now being in high school she reads well above my and most other people's level. She initially selected that term for herself when she learned that even though she was intellectually capable of handling more than most she would be turned down by most if not all covens because she was underage. She felt it was ageism and nothing more.

That makes her sound egotistical, and she is far from it. Frankly she is ashamed in many respects to be labeled a "brain" or "genius" as she sometimes gets at school. Still she seems to have a point. Perhaps her own spiritual path which show her differently, but for now she is happy learning what she can on her own (no real groups in our area for her to relate to). All I can do is support her search for herself. Lovely young lady.

By the way, I think this group is helping me to better understand her. She invited me last year to enjoy the summer solstice with her and I am privately hoping she invites me again!

I was initiated into a Garderian/Alexandrian coven (HPS was Alex, HP was Gard) in the early '90's. From what I understand from my Elders, a lot of the secrecy surrounding the Craft was because it was illegal until the 1950's. I'm not sure about Feri, though. I'm not as familiar with that Trad.