(except for 'stranged husb, with whom I don't discuss politics, or much else, these days.)

Fortunately not closely in touch with his family, whom I suspect of being repugs.

The energy there is so limited, they are painful to be around.

If I absolutely must deal with one, I stay away from all "issues." Social, political, spiritual. Because it never goes anywhere good.

I don't really have one. One almost family member is so great otherwise, it just seems kinda mean to start anything..so I don't. It's just not discussed.

So, I got nuttin...

but it sure would be nice to do a "panty raid" of all their stupid (ignorant) bumper stickers, and ask them if they even know what socialism is, or are they aware that they still have their guns..that they weren't taken away.., and the list goes on!

I tried to reason with them and then hinted that being a birther was being a racist because that's what's at the bottom of it. I haven't heard from either of them since then. Frankly, I'm just as happy to cut them loose. I don't want to fight with people, but I don't want to remain silent anymore while they rant and rave away with their Fox News talking points. I don't really want to socialize with people like that anymore although where I live it's hard not to since most people in my area are conservative.

Born agains, too. They're very sweet, but he's a Fox-news-watcher, and I think she pretty much goes along with his viewpoint, politically. The most I've ever done is post the occasional anti-Republican scathing remark on FB, but I've held off any serious rants. When we are together in real life, politics is pretty much off-limits.

If they were in my face, it would be different.

Sometimes they forget and say something stupid, usually I correct their mistake without belittlement, sometimes I can't help myself!

She could not understand why I voted for and (horror!) worked for the Obama campaign last time around. She would call me
drunk out of her mind seething in venom about Obama and his birth certificate, yada, yada, yada. Our friendship went back to 1971
and I seriously think Fox poisoned her mind. Every single negative Obama rumor, my phone would ring. She had never acted this.

I would be delighted to drop politics and speak with her about any other subject but she would not leave it alone.
I was revulsed by the way she spoke about people from different cultures and people who were unemployed. I reminded her I was
unemployed (I have a job now).
I do miss her, but I don't know her anymore.

With some, you can call a truce and not talk politics, others you may have to cut loose, at least for now.
It really is a shame.

I lost one after 42 years of friendship with 0 arguments.
Hannity is the biggest poison in the USA.

There's been more than one blow up in the past and I simply don't want to deal with the drama. So now my family pretty much knows that if they want me to come around sometimes then those topics are off limits.

So far it's worked but with another election coming up, who knows. I'm prepared to walk away from them if I have to, though it took me a long time to get to that point.

and appealed to people's hearts--IF they wanted to stay friends/close--there are PLENTY of other things to talk about. Saying, "Let's be adults about this, and stay civil to each other." Ask them if they really care about you--say you miss them a lot.

It worked with most people, not all of them--and EVERY time they start talking about those subjects, I get up and leave the room, change the subject (as polite as possible) or beg out of the event. I always tell them I am glad to see them, compliment their cooking, garden--really engage them in other subjects. Talk about old memories--anything they are interested in.

I think this is really the only way mixed company can socialize. Learning how to change the subject in a calm way--it's like training a child, really. It does not work with everyone, but I have saved many relationships this way

I am getting/reading everywhere that in order to heal relationships, WE are the ones who have to extend compassion. To me this means that it is up to us (ones who are awake) to calm people down, to heal the rift--and the way to start is in our own families and friendships. My experience so far is NOT to engage in ANY divisive conversation but use positive and negative reinforcement, as if with children, to help people remember how to be civil.

This takes dedication, patience, and consistency--the very same things that are needed when raising children--because people have forgotten how, or need to learn for the first time--HOW to be socialized.


Good luck!!!

Much appreciated. I surely need guidance in this regard and am going to sit with what you've shared here.

[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]Wonderful advice and very well put!

My husband is a rightie, sad but true. Our marriage almost ended over the 2008 election so we decided that we cannot talk politics, it isn't important enough to lose our relationship over. That election was an absolute hell for me, we argued every - single - day.

I don't really have any "friends" that are righties that I see a lot, though a lot are on FB. I speak my mind on FB and if they want to argue fine, if they can't handle argument that's fine too. I don't hide who I am, though that would be the prudent think to do in Kentucky.

The thing about my husband is that I don't talk politics but I appeal to his gentle side when discussing things. We agree on so much but political labels prevent us from seeing that at times. This may be true throughout society, something gets a label as belonging to one "party" or the other and people change their minds on that issue. I've seen my husband do that. It's sad. But then I think I do it as well sometimes, or not enough to please people on liberal message boards at other times. I piss liberals off a lot of times because I don't like liberal misogyny any more than conservative misogyny, for instance. We expect everyone to get their marching orders and go on both "sides".

The political climate in this country is taking away our rational thinking ability, disrupting civility, and negating empathy. The way to talk to people on "the other side" is to talk about stuff in common, we are forgetting things we do have in common in the media driven haste to drive wedges between people. My husband LOVES animals and I bring stuff up to bring out that side of him from time to time. We have to do something to find basic, common ground with people, we are losing that rapidly.

Decline to discuss what you disagree on. If necessary, ask them to avoid the subject so you can enjoy one another.

It works when you have a couple of individuals, but I don't know how well it works with groups.

They have gone through a tough few years--just lost their house, actually. They are now very conspiracy-minded, so we share that in common. I find it amusing that now they are anti-war (when Obama's in office) but that is human nature, I guess.

I have to say that I find (in general) that conservatives tend to be more tolerant of liberals than the other way around. That is unfortunate. Why do you see it as "dealing" with them. Just accept them (unless you have too many differences of opinion--then it's more a question of why they are your friends in the first place).

I think who is the most tolerant of the other depends on who is in the majority in a geographical area. The majority doesn't feel it to be as necessary to be tolerant. That's just my opinion. Living in a red state I find liberals to be more tolerant.

Try to keep conversations on topics that aren't controversial, especially w/the family members. If a topic arises, I try to approach it from a personal perspective that reinforces MY feelings & reflects how it effects THEIR lives. I use a covert tactic. (Imagine!............A Scorpio being COVERT!!! LOL )

In all truth, I try to avoid spending much time w/Repukes. Tho that's hard here in red TN. I find seclusion works well for me.

that I am incapable of discussing politics or religion without hurting someone's feelings. I'm a nice person and I don't want to hurt feelings, but if they persist I answer back with facts and don't get personal. I may say something like, "I know you came to this opinion because of your own background and experience--but, experience varies and I disagree." Family, though, they sometimes want to start up because they hope to 'get my goat.' I don't give them the satisfaction. Politics is not important; good government IS important.

The other side is not so methodical, and often have oral diarrhea.

I'm not so careful about hurting feelings, but I do give them a chance. I'll start with a big smile and compliment that person on what he/she feels is their best asset (cute nose- good sense of humor-successful business) and say "For a person with ...insert asset... you seem to be awfully upset. Why don't we change the subject? Or, should I just pay up and hope to run into you again some day?" If they bring it up again, I order the check, wish them well, and leave.

....If you leave Bill ORielly on while I'm here, I am going to have no choice but to respond to his ridiculous claims, at which point you will defend him, I will have to tell you why you are wrong, blah blah blah

It usually works.

He's obviously learned that you are good as your word. Your dad is probably smarter than the average coot. And compliments on training him well.

I have about this is, my experience was that back around 2006-08 it seemed like the divisiveness both amongst friends, family and in society seemed to reach an extreme point. People were--not--on their best behavior. And I was trying to play mediator, trying to patch up relationships (it took a toll on me). Though I have patched things up with most of the people, many of these people are not talking to each other.

Now I think that this polarization is beginning to subside--not that these people are now talking with each other--but the energies don't feel as harsh. I am hoping it gets better so there's not so much--tension between people who are different than each other.

That started this new tense era. You can read much more details about those issues in my archives at:
www.starself.com/articlesnews.html Read the ones at the bottom of the page on Pluto.

Since then, it's no picnic: Uranus is about to square Pluto 7 times during the next 3 years and more importantly,
Neptune and Chiron have come to "rescue us" (I believe). On the down side, the misuse of Neptune is what has
caused such mass insanity, otherwise known as the Fox network.

On the up side, it's bring light-workers out of the woodwork and help ease into the new age of 12/21/12... That's for real.

Also, in the past few years (Obama years) it didn't help with harsh Saturn opposing harsh Uranus exactly; that was very divisive.
I think it is very premature to assume that we're over the worst part. It has yet to even lift its head, i.e., Pluto will oppose the USA's Sun in 2015 and then we'll have the country's first Pluto return around 2021. They will be huge, redefining moments for all of the countries.

The critical moment is NOW, with Neptune so prominent, we have to grow up spiritually and start living for each other.
I finally found what I was looking for in Charles Eisenstein's "Sacred Economics".... the end of the 26,500 year Mayan calendar is not the end, it IS the end of us earthlings acting childishly. After this December is the New AGE where we must become adults as a civilization or else we'll perish. It's in our control.

Blessed be.

Here's where it is so plain to me that these planetary aspects are so powerful...people who before used to tell jokes and get along with each other suddenly started to--lose trust in each other and--it was like watching a slow motion tragedy to witness such good friends and family really turn on each other. I am still sort of in awe of it.

It has inspired such a major self diagnostic--me searching for what role I played, and now I have come out of this understanding a whole new dimension of compassion. That it is first and foremost compassion for ourselves--that we are all imperfect and just doing our best. I am working on softening myself to all of this--so that I do not -feed- the polarity, within or without. And this is a new insight for me.

Thank you for clarifying what Pluto has been doing and what the squares with Uranus mean during these times--and for such a great response to my question. It is also clear to me that you and many people on this board (and elsewhere) are working on these same questions and--so true--working to grow up spiritually. I will read your Pluto archives--this is helping me let go to the universe--of a lot of stuff.

Peace Rick--and to everyone!!

My sister and her family are the only ones I really have to deal with. We usually don't talk about it, but on the holidays there will be a cousin who doesn't know this. And will start talking politics. It's so funny the silence at the table, he'll try again, than he gets it. We have had our episodes, so we know we cannot (or I know, there is no talking to them) so for the sake of a nice day we shelf it. I think we both respect each other for. But one too many drinks and the fur does fly. I was here on vacation right after the invasion of Iraq, I said something about bush and my sister started crying hysterically. She said " your hurting the troops". Now it's ok to mock the president, with PBO, it doesn't seem to effect the troops. Hmmm

I work with a lot of Republicans and have several that are friends. Some are people that I'd trust with anything I have and I know they have my back. Do I agree with them on politics? Mostly, no. A lot depends on what KIND of Republican they are. The same goes for some of my Dem friends, too...

Some Republicans are fiscally conservative folks who really are not at all supportive of the socially conservative crap spewed by the fundy folks. You have got to learn to sort out the social stuff from the fiscal stuff. Most of my big hot button issues are social ones--Choice, GLBT/human rights, Social Justice, etc. More often than not, those issues really are not on the table with the fiscal conservatives. They GET the fact that this stuff has no real bearing on spending. (How much does it REALLY cost taxpayers to allow two people to get married irrespective of their gender?) Sure, it can be an uphill battle with them to try and discuss anything that relates to Universal Health Care, but trust me on this, if they are a true fiscal conservative they really are not marching in lockstep with the fundies.

If I am being honest with myself intellectually, I'm not terribly thrilled the level of deficit federal spending that has gone on for the last decade, either. Makes no sense to me that we are spending kerjillions of dollars on ways to kill of people who don't look or think like we do, and it pisses me off a lot to look at the suffering in this country that our unending love of war brings to us all. From my liberal perspective, if you are gonna spend it--at least spend it on stuff that helps people. From a true conservative perspective don't spend it at all... There really IS a place there for finding some agreement IF everybody is willing to be honest with themselves. Very often I can gain some traction by talking about what we DO agree on, and then I go on to open a discussion about what my perceptions are of the common sense it makes to be progressive with other issues.

Want to reduce the number of abortions? Let's work to do something proactive to reduce the NEED--like made contraceptives available freely and maybe fund research into more EFFECTIVE contraceptives...

Want to reduce medical spending? How about a national discussion about preventive care and the funding for it? How about a discussion about Single Payer and how with something like it that we can maybe reduce the really high cost visits to the ER that people are forced into because they don't get treated BEFORE it is an emergency. Treating that hypertension all along is a LOT less expensive than waiting for a stroke to happen, taking a trip to the ER, staying in the hospital, and THEN paying for after care if the victim is left unable to self care. Oh--did I remember to mention that single payer would probably reduce Doctors' overhead a lot because they won't need multiple billing clerks to bill all the different insurances people have??? Docs could charge a lot less if it didn't cost them so much to DO business...

Wanna discuss unemployment? Hey--how about a training program that is part of the benefit? If you don't have a job, and can't find one, attendance at this training program could be required... If you have kids and can't afford day care THAT could be a service offered as part of the unemployment training program!! The same thing goes for training new plumbers and electricians--while they repair public buildings, roads, and facilities?

I will say, that, IMO, discussion with the fundies and the morality folks is next to impossible. If they are acting out of some religious belief there is probably no getting through to them. Having SAID that, however, I have to ask--aren't there a few Dems out there that are SO convinced of the moral superiority of what they are saying that they can't be reached by logic either?


Laura

I am an Anesthetist and this one MD started in on (during a case I might add) , "You know when Obama was little he told everyone he was from Africa". I said (tired of this crap, and frankly surprised hearing it from an educated person), "You know, I don't believe all of that". His face went red and he starting spewing " You know he was editor of the Harvard Medical Review and it said he was the first African American from Africa to be the editor" I said " Medical?". He got snarky and said in the tone of a ten year old "No LAW, he's a LAW-yer". I said "Well, you said Medical". He harrumphed , and said a few other things..but it was dead in the water.

There were a few other sentences I can't remember well..but I just remember sticking to "I don't believe that he is Kenyan". What is weird is that we usually got along well and we still had to do 2 cases together. So I just acted my normal cheerful self..and truthfully, he kinda acted chagrined. But I just looked him in the eye and was pleasant. What is weird is that I have noticed that since then, I see him looking at me from the corner of my eye. Maybe he is overcome by my beauty and charm (HaHa) or maybe he wonders why someone who would NEVER agree with his politics is accepting and positive toward him...ah the mystery.

for the country.Always wanting to screw everyone over. I say take em out back and beat the sh--t! out of em."

HAHAHA!

Then if that doesn't work Plan B.

I'm with you, can't change them or make them see the facts!

I'm not strong enough not to be rude and nasty to them each and every time I saw one.

Last edited Sun May 27, 2012, 08:43 PM - Edit history (1)

This one is very hard for me. I live in a red community, red county, in a red state. I work in a department at the hospital where I am the token liberal employee. Fortunately, most of my family members are liberal/progressive, and I have friendships, associations with people who are kindred spirits. I do feel lonely and isolated at times, but I feel that I am here in this place at this time to make a difference. These republicans, right-wing nut jobs, et. al. are my brothers and sisters, too. We all have to learn to live together in spite of our political/social views. I'm still learning.

Edit to add: I vacillate between being angry at having to defend myself and being sorry for the people who are so entrenched in ignorance and bigotry. I am not sure that I'll ever be able to make a difference, but I hope that I can show my faith in humanity and share my beliefs that we are one.