Supposedly, one of the animal totems I have been working with for a few months now is Bee. Which has been interesting. They keep showing up in the oddest places, which around here, is anywhere. Some residents of our fair city claim they haven't seen a honey bee in our area since roughly the year 2000. I've seen two in the last month.

I would love to read this book when it is published.

About the experience with bees of late, as well as looking forward to the book.

And we're interfering with the drones...

I wonder if that has any relationship to Colony Collapse Disorder?

And when too many insults have occurred for a Unity of bees to continue and reproduce healthy generations of themselves, they are asked by the overlighting deva of the hive to take themselves out of production. That, from the bees.

It was about a two hour talk and Jacqueline says that's only a 20th of the information she has put together in her book. It's going to be a doozy.

Is this meant to be literal? Does the author really claim to know the opinions of bees?

why you're in our safe haven questioning the things we like to discuss and/or believe in? There's a forum for septics, you know. Go mock us there.

Lovely typo!

Antiseptic, indeed!

Burt got left in the dust. Only his name remains. He lives next town over. A chiock cam eonthe scene na,ed Roxanne Quimby. SH epushed hom out made heaps of money......is now wheeling and deeling woith wolderness aquisition in Maine.
That said, she is giving a generous grant to the Beehive Design Collective, in Machias Me. for a community improvement grant, a large mural in downtown.
What goes around comes around .......or publicity stunt?

It was intentional, though

Sometime last year I got tired of seeing "woo" this and "woo-woo" that and came up with my own countering word for the opposite side. Only instead of an onomatopoeia word, I picked something that was a real word, and had an appropriate definition, especially in its etymology

I wondered if it might have been deliberate, it was such a well-placed shot. Well done!

As is often said on another "active" group at DU: "words have meaning"

or anywhere else.

I felt confused by the OP, so I asked about it. We may have different belief systems (I don't really know) but that does not mean we can't try to understand each others point of view. I read threads here on occasion, but I rarely post because I generally understand what is being discussed, such as astrology.

I may be a skeptic, but I have been a member of a major occult group (the O.T.O) for over a decade, and I have never heard of people deciphering the spirituality of insects. My motivation is strictly based in curiosity. I am not going to make fun of any answer I receive, unless it is a personal attack against me. But since the posters here are generally polite, I don't expect that to be a problem.

For what it is worth, I have been mocked in the Skeptic's group on DU2 for being more skeptical than some of the other regulars of that group. I am very skeptical of the inherent existence of groups, values, and meanings, and some DUers think that is silly of me.

All that said, I do understand why you would feel defensive about my questions. Some on DU would mock you. I admit that I may have mocked you years ago, but I no longer feel that is how I want to conduct myself.

Ultimately it doesn't matter what the author thinks, it matters what the person reading it thinks.

"Truth" and "Reality" are very slippery concepts, so I like the idea of treating absolutely everything, right down to the colour of my eyes, as metaphor.

I think the concept of bees having their own spiritual life is a hell of an evocative idea.

I am very interested in beliefs. How beliefs are formed, how beliefs are dissolved, and how beliefs affect our decisions.

I am also interested in the sociological aspect of beliefs. What do people really believe, and why? The only way I can answer that question is by asking people what they believe, and why they believe it.

People's relationship to the concept of bee spirituality is what I am interested in.

I generally learn about these types of concepts best by having discussions about them.

My position is one of radical skepticism. More precisely, it's Pyrrhonian skepticism, named after an ancient Greek philosophical tradition. I actively withhold both belief and disbelief in everything, including even such mundane ideas as "The universe is a real place," or "I am a human being." I would go so far as to say, "I perceive something that seems like a real universe" - except that I don't even have satisfying definitions of the concepts "I" or "perceive" yet.

From that position, the question of bee spirituality is no different than the colour of my eyes or whether (or not) the moon exists.

Perhaps people would be more honest if we said things were predictable, as opposed to true.

I don't think I could go further than that any more, though. I spent far too long as a logical positivist. Can't go back there any more. Beliefs tend to be traps. So do disbeliefs. I'm looking for radical moksha, not more subtle traps.

The short answer is yes. She is in communication with the bees.

Everything that lives on the farm matters. A couple of days ago, my friend had one of her hives swarm. It was wet and really cold. She had to capture the hive in a bucket, but many bees fell to the sides and down into the wet grass of the orchard. On Friday, my dear friend spent five hours with a feather and a Dixie cup, picking up bees from the grass. She guessed she rescued about 500 bees.
She did that because every bee matters.


I've known Jacqueline for many years. We both follow biodynamic agriculture practices as taught by Rudolph Steiner.
The farm is considered a co-creative effort including plants, animals, insects, the farmer and everything else you can find there.

Our local extension agency, with direction from Washington State University, has been conducting experiments on biodynamic compost. The results are coming in and make for interesting reading.

It was quite the experience, cooperating with her and asking for her advice, since I'm a total novice with plants. She seemed very happy that I'd taken the time to do that.

They are like the repositories of knowledge about their particular subject... plus. There is liveliness, strength and knowledge.

I'm glad you had that experience.

and if so, do you think everyone should try to connect to their work in a similar way? For example, should a fast food employee try to connect on a religious or spiritual level with certain aspects of his or her job, or are some jobs too toxic for that type of spiritual connection?

I remember exactly when it happened for me. I was making the bajillianth meal for my family. I was tired of feeling unappreciated and put out. I was also suffering from the affects of anger via health issues.

In the blink of an eye I had the realization that whatever I'm doing is holy. Every meal I make is a sacrament to myself, life, to my family and others. I began to become conscious of many aspects of my life that I had previously performed as an automaton. I stood there, chopping vegetable, thanking them for giving their life to us. I felt the knife in my hand, my feet on the floor, my heart beating, my breathe moving in and out of my lungs. There was a point where I practiced feeling my blood flowing through every bit of my circulatory system. Becoming conscious of life in everything is the path I follow.

My life has depth and richness that I'd never thought possible before I began to become conscious. I finally began to understand what the gurus meant when they extolled, "Be here now." It took me more than 20 years to get that one.

I've since worked at a number of jobs, including a stint in a factory. I loved the people I worked with. Six Vietnamese men, all ten years older than I. And me, a woman, I was their lead person. I worked that job until I saw the owner of the factory making (in my opinion) some bad business decisions. Not my company, not my business. I wrote a letter on the spot, outlining why I was leaving, but since it was not my place to dictate anything about how the business was run, I was leaving.

I could not support bad decisions (dishonesty) with my time (life). Choice. Supporting a dishonest company just would not do it for me.

I'm sure many people do connect to their work on a spiritual level. We are creatures who make meaning. We build it or discover it in our lives, in whatever manner we do.

Really though, I'd rather talk about bees. My relationship with plants, chickens, bees, supporting them to be the best expression of plants, chickens and bees (unity) possible is the highest level of work for me.

Spiritually speaking, in your opinion, what are some important lessons humans can learn from bees?

both as a group and as part of the whole of the cosmos.

Oh my, that makes me think of Carl Sagan's Cosmos series. What a wonderful example of a human who understood that we're all a part of everything. AND he didn't need any sort of dogma to live a good life, full of wonder.


I changed a typo ~ for some reason, on a regular basis, I drop one of the Os in good and write god, as in "god life." Whenever I do that, I find it interesting to say the least. I certainly don't have a belief in any god in any usual sense. To me, god is a three letter word that allows me to communicate something... sometimes.

We have been debased in our society to thinking we should only act/work for $. For me, this is the poisoning of our society. The Biblical quote: "Money is the root of all evil." has a ring of truth in it, as it can take hold of a society, as I believe it has ours.
When we act only out of the desire for $ (or what it buys....material stuff) we are robbed of any true joy & spiritual satisfaction from our actions. When we start focusing on our ACTIONS & how we can derive joy from them, regardless of how insignificant our work may seem, WE make it significant w/the focus we place on it. I have worked many jobs over my 5+ decades on this planet & have found that often those that I got the most fulfillment from were NOT the ones I was paid the most to do.
Always, we CHOOSE to be fulfilled & find meaning in our contributions, regardless of society's view of us.
Imagine if we all connected to our work in a significant & intimate way, how much better our society would be!
There was a book written in the '80's--"Do What You Love & the Money Will Follow". Frankly, this should be our goal. Finding our passion & joy, & $ should be secondary. I believe we all would be much better off in all aspects.

It comes across as the standard incredulous reaction so often seen by the sceptic crowd. Not "Hmm, what's that all about, I wonder?" but this:

That includes people believing that I will be nice when I post questions in this forum. I don't expect you, or anyone here, to automatically believe that I will be "cool" just because I say so.

Since the hosts have not chosen to block me from this group, I feel they are being very open minded to possibility that I actually won't mock anything I see posted in this group.

it's usually not overt or so direct. It's subtle, or simply not addressed at all. The few members here that do sometimes question something are reasonable in their approach. It never comes across in the incredulous tone I mentioned above. Read more of GG's method of being critical without being disrespectful. I think he's got the knack for the most part

Now, your post-title deserves to be addressed:

I hope that I never tell anyone else how they should approach discovery and truth within this protected group.

Additionally, I will not mock anything I read here, or bring it elsewhere for mockery.

Is that you get to decide for yourself what is real and what is metaphor.

The other nice thing is you don't get to decide that for anyone else...

It doesn't surprise me that a few of us twitched at your question, though. Words are touchy things, and DU has a history of being hard on people with non-mainstream beliefs. Which is odd, considering that progressive liberalism itself is a decidedly non-mainstream position in America.

I am a skeptic. I do use a different belief system than many who post here. Many skeptics do mock the concepts often supported in this group.

The reaction is natural, in my opinion. I completely understand, and I take absolutely no offense from people questioning my posting here.

I get such a giggle for your little moving figure thingy.. So, I must ask... Where? How?? I've been looking for a moving character, but I don't know where to look.

It just made me smile since it is grotesque and cute at the same time.

If you go Google Images, and type "animated gif," you'll get a bunch. However, you have to click on them to see how they move.

http://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&hl=en&source=hp&biw=1217&bih=894&q=animated+gif&gbv=2&oq=animated+gi&aq=0&aqi=g10&aql=&gs_l=img.1.0.0l10.2242.3599.0.5088.11.10.0.1.1.0.210.989.4j5j1.10.0...0.0.G1UON7LmYdA

the left brain is the answer for everything. Septics. That was great.

Some in occult circles believe the body is sacred, and therefore, everything that comes from the body is sacred too. The use of human excrement in ritual practice is rare, but it is not unheard of. For these folks, shit is often associated with the sun and the color gold. Other bodily fluids, such as saliva, blood, and cum are much more common.

Some members of the O.T.O. cook with menstrual blood when making sacred food items. Menstrual blood is associated with the Moon, and is called, "Blood of the Moon, monthly." The leaders of the cult say members can't serve the congregation menstrual blood at official Gnostic Masses, so many members just started calling all of their Gnostic Masses "unofficial."

edit: I hope discussing hard core ritual magick is OK for this group.

You have taken this thread way off topic. If you wish to discuss O.T.O. or G.: D.: you are welcomed to do so at the AWPS group where there will be more that are quite familiar with this topic. Please do not hijack the topic about bees in this way. Thank you for understanding.

My bad.

Last edited Mon Jun 11, 2012, 05:45 PM - Edit history (1)

Any time I see someone talking about bees in a positive way, I am reminded of the work Layne Redmond has done researching ancient frame-drummers. I can't do much searching here at work (almost every link in DU is partially blocked) so you'll have to look her up yourself. I'll amend this post this evening with proper links.

Suffice it to say, she's discovered that the ancient Greek drummers were no only women, but keepers of bees!

eta - Here's a blog of Layne's about the ancient beekeepers: Sacred Path of the Bee

Learning about bees and belief systems!

I like all of what has happened here.

A pause of gratitude.

And I love this concept of bee communication. I view "spirit" in all things so how can anything NOT have "spirituality" and exist? That's just my opinion, today anyway.

And what's so odd about that is I remember reading in the old Gnosis Magazine of a belief from Jewish mystics. That is, everything, from the tiniest particle of matter to the largest and most complex, has the "spark" of the Divine in it. It has to, if it was created by Divine energy or process. To me, that means everywhere is a "holy place". It's all been touched by the Divine and equal to all other particles with that spark. Nothing can be more equal than anything else

I seem to recall some of the out of body practitioners I've read speaking of making contact with inanimate matter. Of course, Carlos Castaneda had his "inorganic beings" in "The Art of Dreaming". There's really no reason why this can't be, so long as Spirit is real and does indeed exist in everything

I'd like to learn about the birds next!

Bird, Bird is the word.




Sorry I couldn't help myself...

You already know about "the Moon up above", Ric!

a to z

Let me tell ya....

oh yeh

Everything shared was valuable to either the one sharing or those who receive the sharing.

I stand with my feet on the ground and my head in the sky. I seek balance. Practice kindness as much as possible. I believe I am fully human and fully Divine. I feel myself called by Source, whatever, wherever that is. I am grateful to be here having this experience. Because of my Divine nature I can forgive myself and love myself, even when I fall short of my own expectations because I am so fully human.

I'm sorry, I COULD NOT help myself!!!


But other than that, I must say that no matter what the subject matter is, you invariably always add such amazing and profound insight!

PLEASE come back more often!

Thank you BanzaiBonnie for your post - I was starting to think I was going a tad daft I saw Queen of the Sun, and a few other documentaries on our bees.

Mine should be here in a week or so - bought a top bar hive and starter nuc - can't wait. I found Michael Bush and the natural beekeepers and I think there's hope if we do listen to them. I'll try my best.

From another TownDrunk! LOL

Please keep us posted on how your beekeeping goes!

Thanks for this topic. Please ask your friend to tell them that we love them dearly and to please forgive those who do not understand them.

Thanks for this topic. Please ask your friend to tell them that we love them dearly and to please forgive those who do not understand them.

I have read some interesting thoughts about bees. One mention was in the book, "Rolling Thunder" by Doug Boyd. Rolling Thunder was a Cherokee shaman who lived with the Western Shoshone Indians, in Nevada. He taught a woman who was an herbalist but was deathly allergic to bee stings, to communicate with the bees. I found the description of the encounter very moving.

The other spiritual mention of bees, is in a book by Starhawk, called "The Fifth Sacred Thing". Very powerful stuff, IMOP.

Bonnie, what you've shared with us is very beautiful. Please, please, continue to share when you can.

My maiden name means "beekeeper", but I am quite allergic to them.....always thought that was ironic. Please let us know when the book comes out.
Where would one see, or find, "Queen of the Sun"?

but I did find one site that said you could view it free online. Rotten Tomatoes gave it a 97% good rating.


It is lightyears ahead of most documentaries, as far as being entertaining. The old European beekeepers are a hoot. One in particular. I won't add any spoilers.

You will learn about many of the factors of CCD and what we can do about it. My brother keeps bees even though he's deadly allergic to them. He says they make him feel calm. He does keep an EPI pen handy.

If you find another outlet, please post. I'll look, too.

I did not read Zombie Horde's initial question as hostile – the wording seemed to me neutral and just seeking clarification.