Muslim/Islam
Related: About this forumIn Islamic Law, Gingrich Sees a Mortal Threat to U.S.
Scott Shane, NY Times
Long before he announced his presidential run this year, Newt Gingrich had become the most prominent American politician to embrace an alarming premise: that Shariah, or Islamic law, poses a threat to the United States as grave as or graver than terrorism.
I believe Shariah is a mortal threat to the survival of freedom in the United States and in the world as we know it, Mr. Gingrich said in a speech to the American Enterprise Institute in Washington in July 2010 devoted to what he suggested were the hidden dangers of Islamic radicalism. I think its that straightforward and that real.
Mr. Gingrich was articulating a much-disputed thesis in vogue with some conservative thinkers but roundly rejected by many American Muslims, scholars of Islam and counterterrorism officials. The anti-Shariah theorists say that just as communism posed an ideological and moral threat to America separate from the menace of Soviet missiles, so today radical Islamists are working to impose Shariah in a stealth jihad that is no less dangerous than the violent jihad of Al Qaeda.
Stealth jihadis use political, cultural, societal, religious, intellectual tools; violent jihadis use violence, Mr. Gingrich said in the speech. But in fact theyre both engaged in jihad, and theyre both seeking to impose the same end state, which is to replace Western civilization with a radical imposition of Shariah.
full: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/22/us/politics/in-shariah-gingrich-sees-mortal-threat-to-us.html?pagewanted=all
DissedByBush
(3,342 posts)This simply cannot be logically disputed. For example, laws regarding freedom of religion, homosexuality and equality of women are blatantly unconstitutional.
However, much of Shariah can also be *personally* observed and followed by Muslims without a conflict as long as the *personal* observance isn't forced on others. It's no problem if a Muslim personally follows the dietary laws, doesn't drink or gamble, or wants to set up a Shariah-compliant bank. The problem is that Gingrich and his ilk oppose even those aspects of Islam existing in this country and think nothing good can come from them (as if less drinking and gambling is a bad thing).
ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)if they are made law.
Western civilization is not a thing, it is behavior, and it changes constantly.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)is the greatest danger to this country..
Ecumenist
(6,086 posts)Alameda
(1,895 posts)he's an idiot....who is jumping on the "hate" bandwagon. It is very much subject to interpretation and what school, or branch of Islam is doing the interpretation. Mercy and compassion are always looked for.
TigerToMany
(124 posts)Much of Shariah, if it ever managed to take hold, WOULD be a huge threat to the US. Things like Shariah's stance on divorce, separation of church and state, gay rights, among anythings are opposed to American and indeed Western values. But there aren't actually that many Muslims around to make it happen.
The thing he leaves out as many people point out is that Christian fundamentalism is just as big a threat, and even more so because there are many more people who believe in it. And when you get down to it, the really nasty types of Christian fundamentalism aren't so different than Shariah law.
alp227
(32,459 posts)but one group at least didn't commit as much terrorism.
davidknz
(1 post)My 02c
[1] A religion that seeks to be in the presence of the eternal five time a day cannot be all bad...
[2] A country that often sees the world through bombsights at 30,000 feet cannot be all good
Violet_Crumble
(36,142 posts)About Sharia and Muslims in the US: 'But there aren't actually that many Muslims around to make it happen.'
No wonder you think that rabid RW bigot has a point...
MH1
(18,147 posts)According to the CIA World Factbook, Muslims are 0.6% of the U.S. population. (Even Buddhists have more, at 0.7%.)
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/us.html
So, are you saying it's "ridiculous" that a group with such a small percentage of the population wouldn't have the power to implement their legal system on the population at large?
Or are you saying that it's wrong to think of Sharia as a Muslim legal system?
(Whether The Grinch "has a point" is an entirely separate question. I think the whole discussion is dog whistling, myself.)
harun
(11,355 posts)Christians advocating Canon Law and Jews advocating Halakha. Which is 0.
In the United States if you want a given law you lobby your Congressional Representative for it or you run for Congress yourself to then present and vote on laws.
99% of U.S. law is compatible with Sharia, which is why you don't see ANY Muslims advocating "Sharia" law in the United States.
MH1
(18,147 posts)regardless of what you call it, there actually ARE right-wing fundamentalist "Christians" advocating for laws that they claim are based on the Bible. And sometimes they have been successful.
To me that's what makes this discussion a little weird. The same people who are trying to make an issue of "Sharia" actually want substantially the same things (based on what I think I know of Sharia, which might be wrong, and what I absolutely know about the insanity of right-wing fundamentalist "Christians" ... they just want to implement it under their own banner.
Btw, do you have a link to an English language version of exactly what is meant by "Sharia law", to you?
You have the Sharia of Creation and the Sharia applied to Muslims.
So pure water freezing at 32 degrees is a law of the Creation, the Standard Model of Physics, etc. etc.
For Sharia as applied to Muslims the vast majority of Muslim Legal Systems apply this only to Muslims. Paying the poor rate, etc. and non-Muslims pay a tax for protection by the Islamic Authority and usually have their own set of applicable laws.
In the UK for example there is English Common Law and then more and more Muslims are using Sharia to settle disputes amongst themselves.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16522447
For me living in the United States there are protections for my wife under Islamic Law that I apply to our marriage. Mostly dealing with financial protections to her if something should happen to me. Most non-Muslims obviously do this as well in many ways.
Most of it deals with contracts, marriage, giving to charity and passing on capital if one dies. So if a practicing Muslim in the U.S. wants to do those things they simply do them. They don't need to institute Sharia in the U.S. to do it. They are the ones individually accountable before God, so not only are they not worried about imposing it on other Muslims in the U.S. but it is against Sharia to impose Sharia on non-Muslims. What good does it do them? It would only be for Nationalistic purposes.
(Sorry for the lack of detail but at work and that is all I had time to write
Violet_Crumble
(36,142 posts)It's one of the arguments used by RW folk here in Australia as a boogeyman to scare people about refugees (a large portion of our refugee population over the past few years are from Iraq and Afghanistan). I mean, there's a hell of a lot of Muslims in Indonesia, for example, and it's a country where Sharia isn't the rule of law for the country.