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DetlefK

(16,457 posts)
Sat Apr 22, 2023, 05:30 PM Apr 2023

Why SpaceX Starship exploded: Because Musk is a cheapskate who left out vital systems.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/4/22/2165317/-A-Starship-Post-mortem-Why-the-giant-rocket-failed-and-why-it-s-Elon-Musk-s-fault

Here’s the TL;DR version of all of the above

The no-clamps slow throttle-up meant Starship stayed on the pad for a long time, throwing up concrete, rock, and sand all directions, damaging the pad, nearby facilities, and Starship itself.

By the time it left the pad, that debris had already destroyed three of Starship’s engines and likely damaged valves and systems that would lead to additional engine failures as well as an incorrect fuel mixture.

Starship was slow to reach every point in the flight plan, suggesting that other engines were not able to throttle up to compensate for the lost engines.

At what should have been stage separation, either software errors or more smashed hardware kept the main booster firing long after it should have shut down.

The result was an uncontrolled spin that required Starship to be destroyed.

...

But are two parts that were left out of Starship that absolutely doomed this flight and the decision not to include them falls right with the guy at the end of the first row at “Star Command.”

Those parts were not parts for the rocket. They were parts for the launch pad.

For some reason, Musk became convinced early on that he did not want the launch tower to have:

A flame-diverter or flame trench to redirect the blast from the booster’s engines
A water deluge system to dump a massive amount of water around the launch tower during liftoff

...

A flame diverter and a water deluge would have greatly reduced, or even eliminated, the damage to the area around the pad. They would have prevented the blow back of debris that damaged Starship before it even left the ground. It might have headed off the whole cascade of events that resulted in that button being pressed 4 minutes into the flight.

We don’t have to guess about whose decision it was not to implement these systems, because Musk already said he decided to skip these systems over the recommendations of his engineers. Musk even had a preview of what was going to happen, as past test flights of the upper stage also resulted in significant spalling of concrete structures and damage to at least one of the ships. He just made them try different kinds of concrete.


The launch did look weird to me, because there wasn't the usual wall of mist from the water-deluge-system. But I didn't think that it would make this much of a catastrophic difference.
19 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Gruenemann

(1,035 posts)
3. Good luck finding enough water to deluge the launch pad
Sat Apr 22, 2023, 05:47 PM
Apr 2023

Sure, there's salt water in the Gulf, but the southern tip of Texas is not noted for vast supplies of fresh water, which I'm sure would be preferred. Not that the elongated muskrat cares about the environment.

Warpy

(113,130 posts)
4. I was half listening to the discussions before the liftoff
Sat Apr 22, 2023, 05:48 PM
Apr 2023

and one thing that struck me was when one of the engineers said "anything above the level of the gantry is going to be a win." I thought that was kind of a low bar and now I know why.

Musk is penny wise and pound foolish. He's probably hearing the wolves at the door because he's getting hosed on Twitter.

I also noticed the multiple announcements that the stages were separating (4, I think) and nothing happened, during which time the rocket started to tumble end over end. That's about when it blew up or they blew it up.

NullTuples

(6,017 posts)
6. MOVE FAST, BREAK THINGS!
Sat Apr 22, 2023, 07:25 PM
Apr 2023

"No time for all those extra systems, I need to impress/distract all of my investors NOW!"
"But sir..."
"I'm an engineer and I say we can add them later. Argue again and you are fired!"

NullTuples

(6,017 posts)
18. But...but...that's not how venture capital darling "disruptors" work!
Mon Apr 24, 2023, 08:34 PM
Apr 2023

The unspoken part is that while start ups ostensibly "disrupt" how things are traditionally done, the real benefit they bring to large capitalists is chaos in the market segment. After some threshold of investor size, volatility becomes more profitable in the short term than building a solid company that does useful things. And the future in their eyes consists of unlimited short terms.

LT Barclay

(2,734 posts)
8. And this is how our country, well republicans chose to advance our space program.
Sat Apr 22, 2023, 07:50 PM
Apr 2023

If Bush had never been installed as president maybe we would have had a replacement in place when the shuttles were retired.

CloudWatcher

(1,924 posts)
10. Even the self-destruct system took longer than it should have ...
Sat Apr 22, 2023, 08:29 PM
Apr 2023

It took about 50 seconds for it to blow up after they told it to ...

https://youtube.com/shorts/cqbIwZMvbqw

The bottom line on the explosion -- Musk has surrounded himself with engr's that
know what they are doing but apparently are not empowered to say 'no' to the boss.

Oh, and Musk is not nearly as smart as he thinks. NASA needs to stop feeding this
guys ego and fund someone else.

wackadoo wabbit

(1,215 posts)
13. He cuts critical corners on Teslas, there was no reason to think that he wouldn't do the same here
Sat Apr 22, 2023, 10:10 PM
Apr 2023

Once an egomaniacal cheapskate, always an egomaniacal cheapskate — that's what I always say.

RussBLib

(9,666 posts)
14. I watch LabPadre now and then
Sat Apr 22, 2023, 10:44 PM
Apr 2023

...it's a bunch of space enthusiasts who have set up a series of cameras around Boca Chica to watch the rockets. They have a chat attached to each camera angle which is usually populated by rather nauseating Elon fanboys. For the last few weeks, I've been contributing posts to the chat like, "Wouldn't it be a good idea to have a fire trench and a water deluge system for launches?" Not one reply. Not one acknowledgement. I mean, I'm a novice and I can see what's missing. After the rapid unscheduled disassembly, they were remarking on the rather remarkable damage on the pad and surrounding area. I added my fire trench and water deluge system post again. Nothing but crickets. I guess to these guys, Elon is god and can do no wrong.

Great article, btw. I hope that now he sees the damage that this powerful a rocket can do, he will decide to move Starship launches to Florida and just turn Boca Chica into a museum. That recent launch shook my house so badly I thought SOMETHING had to break. Nothing obvious yet, but time may tell a different story.

hunter

(38,946 posts)
15. I wouldn't work for Musk for any amount of money.
Sun Apr 23, 2023, 10:19 AM
Apr 2023

Eventually this narcissistic idiot is going to kill a lot of people in one big bang.

Who wants to be part of that?

Unfortunately we are all part of it.

We the people of the U.S.A. are paying for this.

Why, I don't know.

Musk is not making the world a better place. He's just another grifter like Donald Trump.

Red Mountain

(1,887 posts)
17. Mostly agree
Mon Apr 24, 2023, 08:05 PM
Apr 2023

but I have to say the Falcon 9 is a massive success.

I'll give him that.....but the credit goes to the people he hired to design, build and operate it.

hunter

(38,946 posts)
19. My grandfather was an engineer for the Apollo Project.
Mon Apr 24, 2023, 11:25 PM
Apr 2023

Bits of his metal took men to the moon and back. Some of it is in the Smithsonian.

Fifty years later we have robots who can do that kind of exploration without the heavy lifting.

I don't think natural born humans will ever have a significant presence in this solar system beyond low earth orbit.

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