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Takket

(22,516 posts)
Sun Sep 3, 2023, 09:42 AM Sep 2023

Does dark matter actually exist?

Interesting breakdown of several reason papers...... arguing that a small tweak to Newtonian equations might be the reason for unexplained star velocities far from the center of galaxies, and not the forces of an unseen gravitation influencer (dark matter).

More papers are coming and it sounds like more data is required to expand on this theory.

12 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Does dark matter actually exist? (Original Post) Takket Sep 2023 OP
What about dark energy? Beakybird Sep 2023 #1
I feel like micro black holes should be the top contender Shermann Sep 2023 #2
They looked, couldn't find any micro black holes ... CloudWatcher Sep 2023 #12
Good stuff! Thanks for the link! nt Wounded Bear Sep 2023 #3
I await the day when someone fesses up. "Gosh not everything is 3 dimensional." GreenWave Sep 2023 #4
This message was self-deleted by its author NNadir Sep 2023 #5
ngt has his doubts- mopinko Sep 2023 #6
Call it "dark stuff"? SCantiGOP Sep 2023 #9
I just can't keep up with all this new stuff. keithbvadu2 Sep 2023 #7
It is time I answered this question. pwb Sep 2023 #8
"More data is required to expand on this theory." LastDemocratInSC Sep 2023 #10
I've seen a few reports arguing for MOND. Igel Sep 2023 #11

Shermann

(8,641 posts)
2. I feel like micro black holes should be the top contender
Sun Sep 3, 2023, 09:56 AM
Sep 2023

Why is a mostly theoretical form of energy and matter more plausible than a hypothesis based on normal baryonic matter?

CloudWatcher

(1,923 posts)
12. They looked, couldn't find any micro black holes ...
Mon Sep 4, 2023, 12:43 PM
Sep 2023

If "dark matter" was because of micro black holes, there would need to be a lot of them. And they would cause enough gravitational lensing of stuff 'behind' them that we could see that they are there. And so far ... no luck finding them. One result:

Dark matter is not made up of tiny black holes

From 190 consecutive images of the Andromeda galaxy taken over seven hours during one clear night, the team scoured the data for potential gravitational lensing events. If dark matter consists of primordial black holes of a given mass, in this case masses lighter than the moon, the researchers expected to find about 1000 events. But after careful analyses, they could only identify one case. The team's results showed primordial black holes can contribute no more than 0.1 per cent of all dark matter mass. Therefore, it is unlikely the theory is true.


https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/04/190402113042.htm

GreenWave

(9,167 posts)
4. I await the day when someone fesses up. "Gosh not everything is 3 dimensional."
Sun Sep 3, 2023, 10:14 AM
Sep 2023

Then it is back to the multidimensional drawing board.

Response to Takket (Original post)

keithbvadu2

(40,106 posts)
7. I just can't keep up with all this new stuff.
Sun Sep 3, 2023, 10:40 AM
Sep 2023

It is fascinating to read this stuff but it is way beyond my understanding of the astrophysics.



LastDemocratInSC

(3,829 posts)
10. "More data is required to expand on this theory."
Sun Sep 3, 2023, 04:17 PM
Sep 2023

It sounds more like a hypothesis than a theory. Plenty of work ahead to get it to the theory stage, and I'm sure it will be interesting to watch the process.

Igel

(36,082 posts)
11. I've seen a few reports arguing for MOND.
Mon Sep 4, 2023, 12:32 PM
Sep 2023

They're neat, bundled, and resolve a piece of the data. Sometimes the underlying hypothesis is tweaked to make it work--which is fine for a hypothesis, that's what we do as we get more data to disconfirm one prediction but want to improve on the hypothesis.

But if it works there, it has the same problem that the "tweaks" produce: instead of a single hypothesis there's a range of hypotheses in the same bin but which make different predictions in specific contexts. No one handles all the data without some pretty unprincipled changes to the equations underpinning the thing.

Then again MOND and its numerous flavors is really too incomplete to call a good "theory", so it's hard to completely rule it out. Work continues.

Note there are a number of papers out there that look at examples where MOND requires really extensive work and loopholes to make it work. One-sided gravitational distributions of matter or even gravitational lensing that MOND can't account for so far using analysis with regular matter, even black holes, without some truly exceptional and one-off exceptions. The kind of thing that a good theory should rule out. Like I said, work continues.

I may have to teach dark matter in my high school class, but I also point out that it's less a theory than a hypothesis, "We can't explain this so let's make up some crap to make it work". Again, a nice hypothesis, and work continues.

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