stories, lessons and laws going back as far as there is written evidence. When we look at a bronze age civilization that collapsed, the tablets and inscriptions may seem to have been lost, but not all of it. People got around that had that knowledge.

(at least I think) is to what powers - or singular power (?) - are these curses and incantations suppose to appeal? Are we to understand that the early Christian god dealt (comfortably) in potions, omens, and curses against a neighbor's livestock? And of course the juxtaposition of that against the anathema posed by magic and sorcery - at least in later versions of Christianity?

at the link, which points out that many scholars and at least one archaeologist are skeptical of a connection between Revelation and Roman curses.

But Revelation does have some really vile descriptions of what will happen to non believers during an apocalyptic End Times battle between good and evil. It almost didn't get included in the Bible. It's validity as a book representing the teachings of Jesus has been challenged many times over the centuries. The Eastern church rejected it.

Martin Luther thought that its presence in the Bible was questionable because it addresses the beliefs of a limited number of people during a brief period in the early church, but does not convey the teachings of Jesus about love, compassion, and forgiveness. He left it in his translation of the Bible into German, but made his views about it known.

I was raised in the Lutheran church. We were taught that Revelation uses symbolism that people understood when it was written, but which people today would not understand. I was also taught to reject the various meanings and predictions that modern fundamentalists and evangelicals give to it because they do not understand the political and social context in which it was written.

So, Revelation was not discussed in Sunday School or in sermons other than to tell us to more or less ignore it.

Dr. Bart Ehrman is mentioned in the link. He is a well recognized, well regarded secular historian of the Bible who grew up in a fundamentalist church but is now an atheist. He is not antagonistic to religion in general and says that he respects Jesus' reachings on how to live, but does not accept the theological doctrines of Christianity.

In another post in this thread I linked a video in which Ehrman describes the content of Revelation, explains what it's symbolism meant in the time when it was written, and gives a little background on the author's purpose in writing it.

is that Revelations is both a very dubious text/source (seemingly both disjointed and psychotic - while offering little as far as either religious thought or prescription - and as such a really poor choice for inclusion ... ?)

And - the Roman 'curse' theory could also be turn out to be nothing more than the latest exercise in academic imagination and speculation - soon to be shunted aside and forgotten in scholarly circles. Seems pretty thin to me - but then I'm not a scholar.

likely written 100 years after the time of Christ.

written not by the apostle John, but by John of Patmos.

John of patmos was a hermit who lived in a cave on the island of Patmos, mostly likely living by the charity of locals who would venture to his cave to hear him tell tails and make up stories.

the book was included as a standard canon of the bible by Pope Damasus in 382 at the Council of Rome, most likely because it included horrific tales of the ending of the world. The eastern church rejected it as part of the bible.

My New Testament prof started the class about Revelations by singing the first few chords of Jim’s Hendrix’s Across the Watchtower. 😂 It definitely set the scene for the trippiest book of the Bible!

but I wonder why somebody who was writing to early Christians, who were primarily from Jewish backgrounds in the first century, would use Roman curses in the book. Some early Christians were Gentile converts and many Jews were at least partially Hellenized, but both Jews and Christians of the first century CE considered Rome their enemy. The author of Revelation was writing to Christian communities.

For a really good secular historical take on Revelation, there is an informative Zoom session on You Tube with Professor Bart Ehrman of UNC at Chapel Hill. (Linked below) He is a leading secular Biblical historian. He was raised in a fundamentalist Christian church but doubts led him to leave it and devote his studies to researching historical, factual backgrounds and documents on the development of Christianity and Judaism. He identifies as an atheist.

While researching a paper on Judaism for a history of religions course, I contacted a rabbi who let me use the library in his office. I found an article in the Encyclopedia Judaica about the first appearance of apocalyptic End Times concepts in Judaism. It began after Persia defeated Babylon and the Jewish captives in Babylon returned to Israel to rebuild the temple at Jerusalem. Israel was a client kingdom under Persia then.

Persian Zoroastrianism has a belief in a final battle between good and evil, led by two opposing gods. Good wins out and the evil god (similar to Satan) and his followers are destroyed. But it is necessary for everyone before and during that time to weigh the balance in favor of good by the way they live their lives in order to be included among the good who will live under the good god's rule on earth. Judaism was influenced by this Persian belief, but tweaked it to fit a Jewish perspective. In the Jewish view, God would send a messiah (anointed one) to do either spiritual or physical battle (some thought both) on Israel's behalf. The outcome of the End Times battle would be the destruction of evil in the world and the restoration of Israel as an independent nation with the respect and recognition by other nations of the superiority of the One God.

During the time of Jesus, there was a messianic fervor due to hardships in Judea under the rule of Pagan Rome, and prior to that, of Pagan Greece. There were several interpretations and expectations of what the Messiah would be like.

In the linked video below, Ehrman does not mention the influence of Zoroastrianism on the apocalyptic book of Revelation, but he explains the symbolism in the book that contemporaries of the author would have understood.

Because it's a Zoom session, there is a lot of introductory
material in the first 18 to 20 minutes. The actual discussion of Revelation does not begin until around 18:33 minutes into the video.

Thanks for posting.